Why do Chicagoans look down on people from the suburbs? (Cicero: apartments, neighborhoods)

[fusillirob1983]

Originally Posted by chet everett

...of current "urbanists".

There are actual several accepted English uses of the term "downtown" which include the generic understanding of places that may in fact be hip or trendy as well substitutes for phrases that include: "heading deeper into the business center of the city" or "headed from the north/ northwest into the portion of Chicago that is farther south/SE". https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/downtown

By extension it may also be assumed that even people living in a suburb due west of Chicago such as Oak Park would not be automatically wrong to call places like Lakeview, which is inarguably more hip and trendy as well as more dense than Oak Park, and generally requiring either CTA trip or driving toward the Loop to be colloquially referred to as "downtown". The same logic can even be extended to those living in say south suburban Oak Lawn to refer to Lakeview as "downtown" due both their actual understanding of the hip factor and their knowledge that lack any route would at least skirt downtown...

One can easily imagine how being "corrected" by some smug twit would trigger hatred of someone for such ridiculous self-importance.

When several people would say "oh I was just downtown I should have visited you!" or something similar and I lived in Lakeview, the distinction is important because it would still be somewhat inconvenient for them.


When my aunt, who grew up in the city but now lives south of I-80 wanted information for my 23 year old cousin (not sure why she was involved, but that was another story) to find an apartment but called every neighborhood downtown, it was very confusing to help her because neighborhoods matter in that instance.


When people would ask me questions about traffic that didn't affect me because I didn't live downtown, it was necessary to clarify. I know I gave a generalization in my previous post that appears in retrospect to be misleading because this is a message board and it's barely worth going into these 3 examples.


I could go on. My point is in many instances a conversation would get to a point where context mattered and specifying that Lakeview wasn't downtown mattered. When I moved to the southwest part of Lakeview and was no longer in Wrigleyville I never corrected anyone if they asked me about Wrigleyville - that distinction wasn't necessary. I corrected them if context matters, because sometimes it does. I am pretty sure I didn't trigger hatred in anyone, and if I did they need professional help. I just didn't feel like running through every example in which context did and did not matter and estimated 50% of the time people asked me about downtown.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by prhill

I know people argue over which street is the southern border is it Congress, Roosevelt or 22nd street. Is the west border the river or Halsted. is the North border the river or up to North avenue. Some even argue is the eastern border the lake or Michigan avenue

I have even heard people argue what is the Loop. Is it where the el tracks are or is it Congress, Michigan ave and the river to the north and west

The city's official stand on what is Chicago's "Central Business District". To me that is DOWNTOWN.
Notice the border goes in like 1-block west of the Kennedy.

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Facil...rict/tksj-nvsw link will not work 4/15 for maintenance. It says.

So those who argue otherwise? It's their Opinion. I do myself include the whole Gold Coast and Near Southside.

As a Greater Downtown Chicago? As most US and especially Canadian city's use. Greater Downtown Chicago does go north thru Lakeview and south to the University of Chicago?

But to suburbanites in general? It is anyplace near the Lake. Especially North of the University of Chicago to Evanston. You say Lakeview, Wicker Park, Buckhorn, Ukrainian Village and West Loop? You may as well say downtown or just near it.

But anyone who says just the Loop is really in some bubble today.

* Also to the census? A DOWNTOWN IS A 2-MILE RADIUS OF ITS CITY HALL. That is its standard for cities stats like populations of downtowns.

Some people might think there is a brick wall that borders what is downtown LOL But the city's official "Central Business District" works for me for a SPACIFIC DOWNTOWN. But a "GREATER DOWNTOWN REGION" MUCH MORE LAX. WHY IS THAT SO TERRIBLE THOUGH?

[jwaiter]

Originally Posted by DavePa

Also to the census? A DOWNTOWN IS A 2-MILE RADIUS OF ITS CITY HALL. That is its standard for cities stats like populations of downtowns.

Really? These are all hard fast rules? Where did you get them? Two miles from city hall in Paducah might put you in a farm field.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

Really? These are all hard fast rules? Where did you get them? Two miles from city hall in Paducah might put you in a farm field.

I'm sure it's for large cities or should be ... I did not invent it.

The Problem With Defining 'Downtown' - CityLab

The Census' blunt definition of "downtown," though, inevitably produced some grousing about over-and under-counts of local populations. It measured “downtown,” for lack of a better universal definition, as everything within a 2-mile radius of the local city hall.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by DavePa

The city's official stand on what is Chicago's "Central Business District". To me that is DOWNTOWN.
Notice the border goes in like 1-block west of the Kennedy.

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Facil...rict/tksj-nvsw link will not work 4/15 for maintenance. It says.

So those who argue otherwise? It's their Opinion. I do myself include the whole Gold Coast and Near Southside.

As a Greater Downtown Chicago? As most US and especially Canadian city's use. Greater Downtown Chicago does go north thru Lakeview and south to the University of Chicago?

But to suburbanites in general? It is anyplace near the Lake. Especially North of the University of Chicago to Evanston. You say Lakeview, Wicker Park, Buckhorn, Ukrainian Village and West Loop? You may as well say downtown or just near it.

But anyone who says just the Loop is really in some bubble today.

* Also to the census? A DOWNTOWN IS A 2-MILE RADIUS OF ITS CITY HALL. That is its standard for cities stats like populations of downtowns.

Some people might think there is a brick wall that borders what is downtown LOL But the city's official "Central Business District" works for me for a SPACIFIC DOWNTOWN. But a "GREATER DOWNTOWN REGION" MUCH MORE LAX. WHY IS THAT SO TERRIBLE THOUGH?

You are making a mistake that is easy to understand. About five years, in response to a perception that many urban areas were seeing revitalization of their core that was NOT primarily done as response to blight a professor of Geography who had a contract with the Census Bureau authored this report -- https://uanews.arizona.edu/story/cen...ns-on-the-rise

In that report he choose the "two mile radius from city hall" as way to simplify his data. That report was promoted by the Census Bureau -- https://www.census.gov/2010census/ne.../cb12-181.html

There have been others that have been critical of the two mile radius, and seem to mistake the role of the radius in the context of the report -- The Problem With Defining 'Downtown' - CityLab

Fact is Census Bureau has long used the "CBD" terminology AND they routinely re-evaluate it based on criteria from their own internal studies as well massive data from all kinds of sources. For those of us who have played with the kinds of reports the Census Bureau issues it can be a source of interesting correlations into all areas of income / value -- https://www2.census.gov/ces/wp/2011/CES-WP-11-21.pdf

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by prhill

Many people from the burbs do consider all of the city as downtown so he is right about that.

Yes, it's true. I remember when I worked at an office in Hoffman Estates, one of my coworkers (who lived in Streamwood) told someone that I lived "downtown" (I lived in Lakeview). I thought she was somehow mistaken about where in Chicago she thought I lived, but she wasn't.

I didn't think of this as "ignorant"... just as a curious affectation.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by jwaiter

Really? These are all hard fast rules? Where did you get them? Two miles from city hall in Paducah might put you in a farm field.

Heck, I remember traveling two miles south of city hall in Columbus, Ohio and finding myself in a cornfield. (Not sure if that's still the case today.)

[DavePa]

I'm not defending this census 2-mile generalized calculation. Just cities have no standard defining its own Core/Downtown between them. I merely felt that it's

- definitely more then the Loop.
- the city itself (unlike most others) has a defined "Central Business District".

That it's ridicules to think suburbanites have no right to see Lakeview south or basically North Shore to even Evanston. To a couple miles in as downtown? Or west/northwest including Bucktown to thru the West Loop region and then the South Loop, Near South. The city surely is big enough to see it that way in a general sense? As a "Greater Downtown Chicago Region" That's just opinion yes.

But the city of Chicago has a defined "Central Business District". So that is its Downtown officially. Many cities don't officially. Philly used its "Center City" as its "Central Business District"? Like forever. Now some boast a "Greater Center City" boarders too. Some want to add its University City Region too.

[green apple]

Originally Posted by chet everett

...of current "urbanists".

There are actual several accepted English uses of the term "downtown" which include the generic understanding of places that may in fact be hip or trendy as well substitutes for phrases that include: "heading deeper into the business center of the city" or "headed from the north/ northwest into the portion of Chicago that is farther south/SE". https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/downtown

By extension it may also be assumed that even people living in a suburb due west of Chicago such as Oak Park would not be automatically wrong to call places like Lakeview, which is inarguably more hip and trendy as well as more dense than Oak Park, and generally requiring either CTA trip or driving toward the Loop to be colloquially referred to as "downtown". The same logic can even be extended to those living in say south suburban Oak Lawn to refer to Lakeview as "downtown" due both their actual understanding of the hip factor and their knowledge that lack any route would at least skirt downtown...

One can easily imagine how being "corrected" by some smug twit would trigger hatred of someone for such ridiculous self-importance.

Bro... it's some rube bull**** to debate about what is downtown Chicago as if the concept were in any way ambiguous... the only reason for someone to even ask this asinine question is because they have no understanding of city life yet still want to make some kind of argument (as in your post) as though this is a reasonable and valid thing to ask. Then people get stuck talking about completely irrelevant, stupid bull**** because the person that asked is from the suburbs and somehow feels like their ignorance of the city is actually valid and deserving of a response.

****'s annoying.

Y'all are asking why do city folk hate country folk and the responses are giving extremely clear explanations where the annoyance is stemming from.

[prhill]

I did see a Chicago tour book that said the Hancock tower was on the North side of Chicago instead of saying it was downtown