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Well, in a sense. "So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. " (32:1)
The problem is that Job had become "self-righteous." And Elihu was angry at him for the same reason: "Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God."
Job spent 30 chapters declaring that he was righteous!
Elihu says, "I have heard the voice of thy (Job's) words, saying, I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.
Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy,
He putteth my feet in the stocks, he marketh all my paths.
Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man"
So Elihu wants to make it clear to Job that God is not to be criticized or accused. Job had sinned by insisting that he was right! (Remember that Job was NOT accusing God when, in ch 1-2, he states that God sends good and evil.)
Later, Job repents of his self-righteousness after God reveals Himself more clearly.
blessings,
brian
I believe God told his friends to repent after their 30 chapters of lecturing. God butted in after 30 chapters and told them that the whole time they were talking they STILL did not understand what was going on. He counted Job's questions more righteous than his friends lecture on God's wisdom. I find Job to be a most interesting book.
Job's friends did not know what they were talking about.
The only reason God told Job to repent was because Job started feeling sorry for himself and did not understand that God was going to do something even better for him, BUT his friends were in bigger "trouble" with God than Job.
1 Corinthians 11:27-32 (New International Version)
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. 32When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.
So, God told satan to destroy everything Job had (including his children!), but to spare Job's life. Satan cannot do what God forbids. Only what God commands. "Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy." (Isa. 54.16)
Job was righteous in saying that "God gives and God takes away" and "we receive good from God, we should also receive evil from God." He was not guilty of sin for these declarations.
Then Job begins to curse the day he was born. He begins his "woe is me" discourse, declaring that there's no point in serving God, since hardship may follow.
Elihu, who we never hear about because he is listening and wanting to support Job, when Job's friends are no longer able to condemn Job for his self-righteousness, claims that Job "drinks scorning like water." (Job 34:7-9) Job was right in his own eyes, and blamed God.
Now Elihu explains to Job that pain and suffering are instruments that God uses to teach men the ways of holiness: "For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.
He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.
He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain:
So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat.
His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and his bones that were not seen stick out.
Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers." (ch. 33:14-22)
(To me, this description of man drawing near to death is very similar to what a person with cancer goes through.)
So Elihu explains to Job that God teaches men through suffering. (Remember that Elihu was never reprimanded by God for what he said.)
As a side note, the psalms also give us several examples in one psalm, of how God saves the man He creates. Psalm 107 (read all, but verses 10-15 here):
Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron;
Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:
Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and there was none to help.
Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, and he saved them out of their distresses.
He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder.
Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men
So God does a work in men until they are broken. Then He saves them.
To begin with Job was upright and he did everything he knew to be righteous.
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
In Job 3 he explains that all of the things which had fell on him, were things which he had feared happening.
3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
:26 I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
Even though he was 'perfect and upright' he was still living in fear. He was not in safety, he had no rest, nor quiet, but had been troubled. If we look back to the first chapter it explains exactly what he had been doing.
1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
He was offering sacrifices behind the backs of his family secretly hoping to cover for any sins they had committed.
He was living in severe fear.
Job lived before Moses, in a time often referred to as the Patriarchal Age. They did not have The Law to guide them as would be given later to Moses.
Through the many chapters of this book, Job goes through much hand-wringing and lists every possible sin that he was aware of. Job lists them and explains how he had not committed any of those sins. It is an interesting study of the sins of the Patriarchal Age.
In the end God released Job from his captivity when Job became a minister. He ministered to his friends an in
42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
To begin with Job was upright and he did everything he knew to be righteous.
Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
In Job 3 he explains that all of the things which had fell on him, were things which he had feared happening.
3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
:26 I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
Even though he was 'perfect and upright' he was still living in fear. He was not in safety, he had no rest, nor quiet, but had been troubled. If we look back to the first chapter it explains exactly what he had been doing.
1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
He was offering sacrifices behind the backs of his family secretly hoping to cover for any sins they had committed.
He was living in severe fear.
Job lived before Moses, in a time often referred to as the Patriarchal Age. They did not have The Law to guide them as would be given later to Moses.
Through the many chapters of this book, Job goes through much hand-wringing and lists every possible sin that he was aware of. Job lists them and explains how he had not committed any of those sins. It is an interesting study of the sins of the Patriarchal Age.
In the end God released Job from his captivity when Job became a minister. He ministered to his friends an in
42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
By Forest Bee
1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. You said they did not have the LAW of Moses. So, how did they know what sin was in your opinion?
He was offering sacrifices behind the backs of his family secretly hoping to cover for any sins they had committed. How did he now the Law of sacrifices for his sins if he lived an died before Moses?
He was living in severe fear.
Job lived before Moses, in a time often referred to as the Patriarchal Age. They did not have The Law to guide them as would be given later to Moses.
I think you don't know your Bible and God fully. Why did God destroy the people of the floods and Sodom if they all died before Moses was given the LAW?
Why did God make Moses give the LAW to the freed people from Egypt?
J D Bull
Last edited by JOHNC10; 06-10-2010 at 07:38 AM..
Reason: correcting spiilings
... You said they did not have the LAW of Moses, so how did they know what sin was in your opinion?
I have been taught theories on this matter, yet they are theories.
God gave us all that we need for life and godliness in the Bible. That does not mean that God gave us every possible answer to every question. He gave us what we need to know.
Before Moses not much was written by the Men of God.
Moses grew up in Egypt in a royal household and was taught therein to write, it is possible that previous Men of God simply were not literate.
In terms of knowledge of the men before Moses, we only have the revelations that were given to Moses, to go on.
How did those Patriarchs know right from wrong? I have no idea.
Job does list them, but where did those ideas come from? Is not recorded.
Quote:
... He was offering sacrifices behind the backs of his family secretly hoping to cover for any sins they had committed.
How did he now the Law of sacrifices for his sins if he lived an died before Moses?
We only have what God has given us.
Anything more is man's conjecture.
Quote:
... I think you don't know your Bible and God fully. Why did God destroy the people of the floods and Sodom if they all died before Moses was given the LAW?
I like the book of Job, beause you learn that whatever God decide to do, it for your good. Good and bad people have tribulation, but the outcome of the beliver will be sanctification. God test us and correct us like his children to purify us like gold. It alsmo makes me think that my problem are quite easy compared to Job, who was way more righetous than me and feared more God then me! Job had bad times even thought he did not sin against God and as beleiver we have to hold on to that truth and trust what God does.
"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:5-6
A man repents when he is convicted of doing wrong. If Job was righteous, he would not have repented!
To my understanding, God revealed a deeper understanding of Himself to Job, and this caused Job to see how wrong he was to consider himself "in the right" and suffering "unjustly."
Remember the pharisee and pubblican who went up to the temple to pray? Jesus said that the pharisee was NOT justified. Why? He was lifted up in his heart, believing himself to be better than others, including the pubblican!
But the pubblican KNEW he was imperfect, and in desperate need of being forgiven. And it is THAT attitude that God is looking for in us, friends! Not the first!
blessings,
brian
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