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I like the book of Job, beause you learn that whatever God decide to do, it for your good. Good and bad people have tribulation, but the outcome of the beliver will be sanctification. God test us and correct us like his children to purify us like gold. It alsmo makes me think that my problem are quite easy compared to Job, who was way more righetous than me and feared more God then me! Job had bad times even thought he did not sin against God and as beleiver we have to hold on to that truth and trust what God does.
God bless
Yes! but it is futile! It is vanity to suppose that we know what is best when we cannot see the future.
Ecc. 7:15 I have seen everything during my lifetime of futility; there is a righteous man who perishes in his righteousness and there is a wicked man who prolongs his life in his wickedness.
Ecc. 8:14 There is something else meaningless that occurs on earth: righteous men who get what the wicked deserve, and wicked men who get what the righteous deserve. This too, I say, is meaningless.
Jeremiah asked a similar question:
Jer. 12:1 You are always righteous, O LORD, when I bring a case before you. Yet I would speak with you about your justice: Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all the faithless live at ease?
I think Job repented when he came to same realization we all need to - there is Holy, then there's everything else.
I agree. It wasn't that Job did anything wrong. But, you don't rant and rave at God for too long before God is going to sit you down and have a word with you.
His friends tried to find fault with him and told him that God was angry with him and God was punishing him and Job was self-righteous and on and on and on.
Job was in the middle of something bigger than himself.
God does what he wants, when he wants.
God is always up to something bigger than we can imagine. If God is trying to show the spiritual realm something he can and does use humans down here, but he will always reward you in the end.
This is why Job repented:
2 I know, Lord, that you are all-powerful;
that you can do everything you want.
3 (A)You ask how I dare question your wisdom
when I am so very ignorant. I talked about things I did not understand,
about marvels too great for me to know.
4 (B)You told me to listen while you spoke
and to try to answer your questions.
5 In the past I knew only what others had told me,
but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
6 So I am ashamed of all I have said
and repent in dust and ashes.
Job's friends on the other hand:
After the Lord had finished speaking to Job, he said to Eliphaz,
I am angry with you and your two friends, because you did not speak the truth about me, the way my servant Job did.
His friends wanted desperately to tell Job what is was he was doing wrong. They knew even less about who God is and how He works than Job did.
Last edited by herefornow; 06-10-2010 at 04:43 PM..
"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:5-6
A man repents when he is convicted of doing wrong. If Job was righteous, he would not have repented!
To my understanding, God revealed a deeper understanding of Himself to Job, and this caused Job to see how wrong he was to consider himself "in the right" and suffering "unjustly."
Remember the pharisee and pubblican who went up to the temple to pray? Jesus said that the pharisee was NOT justified. Why? He was lifted up in his heart, believing himself to be better than others, including the pubblican!
But the pubblican KNEW he was imperfect, and in desperate need of being forgiven. And it is THAT attitude that God is looking for in us, friends! Not the first!
blessings,
brian
AMEN! It really is not about your works but your heart!
Isaiah 29:13 Then the Lord said, "Because this people draw near with their words And honor Me with their lip service, But they remove their hearts far from Me, And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote,
May I interrupt? This has been a great thread, thank you! As you are thinking about Job, I have started a thread called "Explain the Job trial in your life." What experience has the Lord used to refine you?? How is Job's trial like yours? Not to detract from this thread, but visit the other one, too. :-) God's blessings to you all.
"I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:5-6
A man repents when he is convicted of doing wrong. If Job was righteous, he would not have repented!
To my understanding, God revealed a deeper understanding of Himself to Job, and this caused Job to see how wrong he was to consider himself "in the right" and suffering "unjustly."
Appreciate the thread... Will share a few thoughts that have come to me over the years.
In Job 1:8, God refers to Job as being 'perfect and upright, one that feared God and escheweth evil'. Consider the fact that God CALLS things that are NOT as though they ARE. God calls us 'friends' while we are still His 'enemies'.
In Job 2:9-10...Job's wife: After Job is covered with 'boils' and Job is scraping himself as he sits in ashes, the wife says 'curse God, and die'. Next he says to wife...'Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. As a female I identify with Job's wife and I would have said the same, were I in that position. Job continues, What? shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil?' Take a moment and consider the 5 FOOLISH virgins in the parable of Jesus given in Matthew 25. Do the 'foolish virgins' see God as only doing 'good things', apart from discipline and suffering...?
So, why did Job sin...? God revealed to Job the same mature truth that was revealed to Isaiah and to Paul...
Quote:
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing,
and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;
and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities,
like the wind, have taken us away. KJV
Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good,
evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against
the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the
law of sin which is in my members. KJV
I agree. It wasn't that Job did anything wrong. But, you don't rant and rave at God for too long before God is going to sit you down and have a word with you.
His friends tried to find fault with him and told him that God was angry with him and God was punishing him and Job was self-righteous and on and on and on.
Job was in the middle of something bigger than himself.
God does what he wants, when he wants.
God is always up to something bigger than we can imagine. If God is trying to show the spiritual realm something he can and does use humans down here, but he will always reward you in the end.
This is why Job repented:
2 I know, Lord, that you are all-powerful;
that you can do everything you want.
3 (A)You ask how I dare question your wisdom
when I am so very ignorant. I talked about things I did not understand,
about marvels too great for me to know.
4 (B)You told me to listen while you spoke
and to try to answer your questions.
5 In the past I knew only what others had told me,
but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
6 So I am ashamed of all I have said
and repent in dust and ashes.
Job's friends on the other hand:
After the Lord had finished speaking to Job, he said to Eliphaz,
I am angry with you and your two friends, because you did not speak the truth about me, the way my servant Job did.
His friends wanted desperately to tell Job what is was he was doing wrong. They knew even less about who God is and how He works than Job did.
Yes; Job questioned the wisdom of God (v.3). How many times does man question God every day! They say, "if God is good, then why.....?" Or, "how can there be suffering in the world---?"
This part seems to be really at the heart of it all. We have no right to question God. He is soverign, He is the Master, He is holy, He is Good!
Another interesting element is verse 5: "In the past I knew only what others had told me, but now I have seen you with my own eyes."
Job had "head-knowledge" of God. But it was all in vain! Oh, my...
How badly do we need constant revelation! And then when it comes, we can hardly find words to describe it!
Appreciate the thread... Will share a few thoughts that have come to me over the years.
In Job 1:8, God refers to Job as being 'perfect and upright, one that feared God and escheweth evil'. Consider the fact that God CALLS things that are NOT as though they ARE. God calls us 'friends' while we are still His 'enemies'.
In Job 2:9-10...Job's wife: After Job is covered with 'boils' and Job is scraping himself as he sits in ashes, the wife says 'curse God, and die'. Next he says to wife...'Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. As a female I identify with Job's wife and I would have said the same, were I in that position. Job continues, What? shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive evil?' Take a moment and consider the 5 FOOLISH virgins in the parable of Jesus given in Matthew 25. Do the 'foolish virgins' see God as only doing 'good things', apart from discipline and suffering...?
So, why did Job sin...? God revealed to Job the same mature truth that was revealed to Isaiah and to Paul...
Peace, Rkin
Amen! God does see the end of things, even from the beginning. We see in part, but He sees the whole! As time passes, I'm becoming more and more convinced that what the book of Job is telling me is that we should just be thanking and praising God, no matter what! It may sound strange, but it seems to me that Life is to be found in praise. He speaks to us in so many ways, including pain. It is certainly an absurdity for the world to see, but God is speaking to us constantly, especially in our affliction!
I think you might be seeing something with regard to the foolish virgins which I don't. Care to share more?
Amen! God does see the end of things, even from the beginning. We see in part, but He sees the whole! As time passes, I'm becoming more and more convinced that what the book of Job is telling me is that we should just be thanking and praising God, no matter what! It may sound strange, but it seems to me that Life is to be found in praise. He speaks to us in so many ways, including pain. It is certainly an absurdity for the world to see, but God is speaking to us constantly, especially in our affliction!
I think you might be seeing something with regard to the foolish virgins which I don't. Care to share more?
Blessings to you!
brian
brian, appreciate your comments and interest in this 'parable'.
Quote:
Job 27:1 Moreover Job continued his parable, and said, KJV (also 29:1)
In looking at Job's wife, I believe she shared Job's life of blessings along with his 'self-righteousness', but was in pain and agony herself, when it came to watching Job's experience in dealing with the skin problems.
Likewise myself, I was raised in a conservative religious environment and felt it's blessings and rewards. My youth sought the conveniences of society while professing godliness, good morals etc. I connected with those who taught that God only 'loves', He never gives 'pain' to anyone, and that 'pain' was of 'Satan' (Devil, Lucifer, the evil one). Though I did not see myself as one of the 'foolish virgins' in those times, I now acknowledge my 'foolish virgin' attitude most of the years of raising a family. However, God did not leave me there.
As I advanced toward the retirement years God gave me several experiences of 'pain' but one BIG one in 2002 when I was face to face with 'death'. I 'put my house in order' and prepared for death. But again, God had more lessons to teach me....from the book of Job. Today, I see others, like myself, walking a similar path, having similar experiences.
The children, even the youth are not prepared to understand the value of 'pain' in light of the sufferings of Christ. Before calvary Jesus acknowledged that there were things He could not tell them 'now', because they were not prepared for them.
Quote:
John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. KJV
The religious community denies that God the Father suffers to have FAMILY. These are the mature lessons that prepare mature Christians to 'love not their lives unto the death' Rev 12:7. Peter boasted that he was 'ready' to go with the Lord to prison and to death, but little did he know how 'self-righteous' he was. (Sounds like Job...right?)
Laodicea, of Rev 3:14-19. This woman/bride/CHURCH is rich, increased with goods and says it has need of nothing, the epitome of self-righteousness, for which God will bring to repentance. (Like Job's wife...)
Quote:
Revelation 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot....
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.... KJV
May God give us eyes to see and ears to hear AMEN!...Rkin
Yes; Job questioned the wisdom of God (v.3). How many times does man question God every day! They say, "if God is good, then why.....?" Or, "how can there be suffering in the world---?"
This part seems to be really at the heart of it all. We have no right to question God. He is soverign, He is the Master, He is holy, He is Good!
Another interesting element is verse 5: "In the past I knew only what others had told me, but now I have seen you with my own eyes."
Job had "head-knowledge" of God. But it was all in vain! Oh, my...
How badly do we need constant revelation! And then when it comes, we can hardly find words to describe it!
blessings,
brian
I used to get all in a rage over these things. The Restitution of All cleared that up pretty quickly. I still have my days, though.
He DID give Job ANOTHER family and so on, but I'm sure if God took away my family and then said, "oh, here is another one," I would still be angry.
It's not like you can replace family members like cows or something.
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