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Wow. Now this ^ is one of the nicest things June has heard in a long time! Thank you legoman!
Your welcome! How could I (or anyone) be in heavenly bliss knowing "just june" is in torment?
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What's truly interesting is that none of them have ever even brought up hell, unless June specifically asked them about it/had a question. June can assure you that her friends are NOT doing everything they can to help June see the light, other than being accessible should June ever have questions about the "light." (And one of her friends is an ordained minister....We're pretty laid back up here in New England, June is guessing. No pressure to convert. Just invitations to go to church sometime...)
Yes it may be the "laid back approach" - sow and seed and then let it grow. Nothing wrong with that approach - in fact it is very good.
But part of it is the "hell is the elephant in the room" mentality. Now June, knowing you don't even believe in God, why on earth would you believe in an eternal torture/torment room known as hell? Its the catch-22 situation. How can they "save" you from something you don't even believe in? The only way June that you are going to believe in God, is if God reveals Himself to YOU. And hopefully when that happens He will also reveal to you that He won't let anyone be tortured for eternity.
So maybe your friends have realized its in God's hands now, and they are just there to support you. Friends are good to have.
He talked about believers in general, not just one person's opinon. When he was challenged, he admitted he has heard only one person say it, and even that seemed to have been taken out of context. Don't defend the undefendable. Read his post. I believe it is still there.
It is a perfect example of the UR mud-slinging that is going on here on daily bases.
Ok Finn, its time to put your money where your mouth is.
When YOU get to heaven, how are YOU going to feel about those that are in the eternal hell that YOU believe in?
Will you:
1. Be really sad for them, and spend eternity pleading with God to release them from their torment.
2. Be really sad for them, but be glad you yourself are with God, and realize it is for the best (perhaps there is nothing God can do about it).
3. Not even remember them because God will have taken all memory of them.
4. Rejoice in their torment because it is God's will and it is God's glorious plan.
5. Other (please specify)
I don't really appreciate the accusations and innuendo when I'm just reporting the facts.
Nor do I!...and keep in mind legoman...we're not just speaking of the posts you have posted here on this thread...either!...you have a history legomen...as does everyone who posts here on this board!....so stop throwing stones!...just saying....I'm tired of this!...but not too tired to set things "straight!"!!!
Sigh. Yes that is what I said. Notice I did not say or even imply all believers will get pleasure from seeing the endless torment of others.
Now stop misconstruing and accusing me of things I did not say. It gets tiresome.
Sparrow, thankyou for your responses. At least one person understood what I meant.
Misconstruing?
Your post is there for all to see, so let's be honest here. If you are talking about one poster, then just say so. You talked about "ET view", and that obviously refers to more than one poster. Do you deny this?
Again, some honesty won't hurt.
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Finn why do you insist on misconstruing what I said?!? Time and time again you do this, not just to me, but to anyone who opposes your view
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I gave you one example of a person who said they will rejoice with God as they see sinners
Yes, ONE example, yet you say "ET view".
Would you mind defining "ET View" for us.
Yes, it is very tiresome to read all the anti-Christian mud-slinging here. It seems to be getting worse by the day.
And you wonder why UR is banned from most Christian forums......
Nor do I!...and keep in mind legoman...we're not just speaking of the posts you have posted here on this thread...either!...you have a history legomen...as does everyone who posts here on this board!....so stop throwing stones!...just saying....I'm tired of this!...but not too tired to set things "straight!"!!!
OK. Sorry I didn't think I was throwing stones. Granted in the past I may have said things I shouldn't have. This forum does get frustrating at times. Please forgive me.
And you have confer'd to me that you would plead with God to stop someone from being tormented endlessly. I would think most people would... but I don't see how that fits in with believing in eternal torment is a righteous and Godly thing (I realize you don't believe this Verna).
That is why I posted the varied responses. Some think they will just forget about hell. Some are just sad but realize it is God's way. A minority take this to the extreme and think it is God's righteous plan to let people be tormented, therefore they rejoice in the idea and it ends up hardening their heart.
And then some would plead with God to release them from eternal hell. I think this goes a long way to putting another nail in the coffin of the ET doctrine. If you yourself would ask God to not let people be eternally tormented, why do you think God would want this in the first place. (Again I realize you Verna believe in annihilation... I'm speaking generally to ETers here).
~So by way of taking a momentary break from the still waging battle, June was just sitting around her office pondering when and how she first heard of heaven and hell. Interestingly enough, she was just a little "just June" of somewhere around the age of four; possibly five. June somehow came to be told that only Christians were allowed in heaven, and she remembers having asked her mother whether a non-Christian family member would also be "allowed in" as well. The answer little June received back was "No." (From there June asked whether the family's beloved golden retriever dog could also go to heaven when he died; the answer, not surprisingly was "No.")
From the above June surmises that her nonbelieving self no doubt began to set in at the tender age of four or five, because June specifically remembers thinking that what she was told simply didn't make any sense. June knows for a fact that she pondered this bit of information for a good long while, even at a young age. She couldn't make sense of "God loves us" but that one of her family members wouldn't be going to heaven, but to hell, along with June's beloved dog...
Thus, the mini-bio of the "just June" early onset of atheism...Not that it matters. Ho hum.
No Ilene...what I came away with is that we have to LOVE EACH OTHER if we are to have any HOPE of ever making this world a better place for us and for future generations...it has nothing to do with the nature of anyone in particular. Loving your neighbor as yourself...is a universal message that was shared hundreds of years by others long before it was ever attributed to Jesus.
Jesus is the culmination of the spiritual template (DNA codes) built in to the evolution of the species . . . and revealed in the "spiritual fossil record" from the earliest oral traditions, and recorded legends, myths, etc. There is a clear evolution. Your familiarity with the records should enable the discernment of this "template" and the increasing sophistication of its manifestation through time.
Your post is there for all to see, so let's be honest here. If you are talking about one poster, then just say so.
YES you are misconstruing. No I was not just talking about one poster. There is a movement of Christians out there - usually more Calvinist in nature, who believe they will be rejoicing and glorying along with God over the rest of humanity burning in torment. I gave you one example. Do you really want me to dig through the archives of the internet to find more examples? Check out the Phelps family. Check out posts by one "beloved57". Check out some of the posts on CARM, especially the Calvinist section. Read some sermons by Jonathan Edwards. This view is more prevalent than you think. I'm glad it is not your view. I never said it was the view of every ET believer.
I'm not going to argue about this with you all day.You are just causing a distraction. My posts stand for themselves, if you would only read them carefully.
LOL!! I had to go back up and look and make sure it was you talking here HotinAZ.....way to go!! This is exactly how I feel now, and it's exactly what belief in UR has done for me. I may still argue for it, but it's only because of the change in me, the love that I feel and the complete and total LOVE that I know our God is now. I want to defend His Holy name and try my best to convey the true nature of God, which is LOVE. And you're right, what Christygirl came away with is the loving nature of Jesus Christ and that's really important. I just wish she still believed in Him.
Hi Ilene. I don't think I've ever said this because I don't post much, but I lurk here often and I was really happy for you when I realized that you had come out of the torment of believing in ET. Having been a believer in ET for many, many years I know personally what an incredible burden was lifted from me when I stopped believing it. So I'm grateful for you that you've come to a different understanding.
I also wanted to address what you wrote above. I know Christy has already responded that she does not agree that she has the nature of Jesus Christ, but putting that aside for just a moment (hope you don't mind Christy) I'd like to ask you something:
If Christy has the nature of Christ, why is it important for her to believe in him? Jesus reportedly called himself the "way, truth and life". If Christy believes that "love/nature" is the way to "salvation" (even though her understanding of "salvation" is living in love in the here and now without concern for an after life), why is it important for her to call that way/nature/love "Jesus"?
I'm not challenging you so I hope it doesn't sound that way, but am truly interested in hearing your (and anyone else's) thoughts.
Pleroo
Last edited by Pleroo; 07-21-2010 at 12:28 PM..
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