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I read this little rant/diatribe, and thought "wow...this guy sure is bitter..."
Then in re-reading it I thought "you know, maybe some of what he is saying is true", and perhaps we ought to "re-examine ourselves", to see if we "be found to be in the faith", or in some other fake counterfeit system. Are any of his observations valid? (yeah, I know, he's pretty radical)
PS: I didn't post this because "I agree" with the guy. (or necessarily anything else on their website). I did it because it points out several things that may, or may not be, things that are reason to reconsider the way we practice Christianity in general. (and particularly in the USA) Do we "brush this guy's accusations off", or should we be considering any of them? What do you all think?
I've been on the website you linked, before. I'm sure you know it's a Universalist site.
Below, in green, are a couple of snippets from a Universalist that came out of the church system .Counterfeit Christianity (http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/counterfeit.htm - broken link)
Satan is the most religious entity there is on the earth.
You are, indeed, like the Pharisees and their children! They didn’t believe and neither do you. Children of Hell, multiplying yourselves, destroying yourselves, bitterly opposing the truth, while pretending to be the righteous custodians of it!
Does anyone in these churches believe?
I agree with much of what he says, but the way in which he says it reminds me of L. Ray Smith. Both those sites can be pretty abrasive, but the frustrations are only directed at the religious establishment, not at the heathen.
The "rants," from L. Ray Smith, etc. are really no worse than the "sermons" directed at the heathen all through the dark ages and beyond, are they?
Not only did Jonathan Edwards, and many others like him, add to God's word, but he directed his lies at the heathen, taking what Jesus meant for the Religious Pharisees and twisting it into something so horrible that people committed suicide.
Suicide: Not a fruit of the Spirit.
Here is a piece of a sermon that came crashing down on the heathen in 1741........
Jonathan Edwards 1741: You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep..."
"...O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell...and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment..." "
Last edited by herefornow; 07-22-2010 at 01:13 PM..
I read this little rant/diatribe, and thought "wow...this guy sure is bitter..."
Then in re-reading it I thought "you know, maybe some of what he is saying is true", and perhaps we ought to "re-examine ourselves", to see if we "be found to be in the faith", or in some other fake counterfeit system. Are any of his observations valid? (yeah, I know, he's pretty radical)
PS: I didn't post this because "I agree" with the guy. (or necessarily anything else on their website). I did it because it points out several things that may, or may not be, things that are reason to reconsider the way we practice Christianity in general. (and particularly in the USA) Do we "brush this guy's accusations off", or should we be considering any of them? What do you all think?
Bud
I read some of it. Talk about a chip on the shoulder.
I read this little rant/diatribe, and thought "wow...this guy sure is bitter..."
Then in re-reading it I thought "you know, maybe some of what he is saying is true", and perhaps we ought to "re-examine ourselves", to see if we "be found to be in the faith", or in some other fake counterfeit system. Are any of his observations valid? (yeah, I know, he's pretty radical)
PS: I didn't post this because "I agree" with the guy. (or necessarily anything else on their website). I did it because it points out several things that may, or may not be, things that are reason to reconsider the way we practice Christianity in general. (and particularly in the USA) Do we "brush this guy's accusations off", or should we be considering any of them? What do you all think?
Bud
While I believe he was dead on there in the beginning....churches are filled with hypocrits and pretenders and that is why so many people are leaving them and religion altogether. He went out into left field there at the end when he started dissing xmas.
He's right too (about the hypocrits that is)...I've seen it for years and others see it too...don't ever for one moment think they aren't and they will judge you even faster than you judge them.
Mystic said it best on another thread about a fellow Agnostic:
Christians are identified by what drives their lives, attitudes and behaviors toward others . . . NOT what they proclaim themselves to be. On that basis . . . Dewdrop is a finer Christian than many of the Bibleans and Churchians here in the forum.
I read some of it. Talk about a chip on the shoulder.
I guess Jesus had a chip on his shoulder, too.
Addressing the Scribes and Pharisees: "fools, hypocrites, blind guides, whited sepulchers, murderers, a generation of snakes~~~~~Jesus
BLIND GUIDES, which strain out a gnat, and SWALLOW A CAMEL.
WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES… within they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS.
You BLIND PHARISEES…
WOE unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! You are FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, and ALL UNCLEANESS… and HYPOCRISY and INIQUITY…
Jesus called them "hypocrites" seven times in one chapter. He spoke with scathing derision to the Scribes and Pharisees throughout His ministry; very few of them received a kind word from Him.
WOW! Every one of these comments from Matt. 23 were spoken directly to the "Religious Scholars and Theologians" in the Church of God centered at the Temple in Jerusalem. Would Jesus speak in the same manner to the Religious Scholars and Theologians in God’s Church today?Does Jesus "change"? NO. Has the Church changed in the past 2000 years? YES. It has gotten WORSE.
Addressing the Scribes and Pharisees: "fools, hypocrites, blind guides, whited sepulchers, murderers, a generation of snakes~~~~~Jesus
Jesus knew their hearts, but this guy is as bitter as bitter gets and truly believes he he holier than holy and everyone one else is a fool and a hypocrite. By writing the letter he proved that he is EXACTLY like the people he was trying to discredit.
Jesus knew their hearts, but this guy is as bitter as bitter gets and truly believes he he holier than holy and everyone one else is a fool and a hypocrite. By writing the letter he proved that he is EXACTLY like the people he was trying to discredit.
I think his letter kinda sounded like the sermons of old preached to the deaf and dumb (remember, scaring people with being lit on fire for eternity doesn't give them spiritual ears and eyes). Nah. He was much too kind.
( Actually, I'm sure there are pastors who preach like Jonathan Edwards, or wish they could, still out there....)
I read this little rant/diatribe, and thought "wow...this guy sure is bitter..."
Then in re-reading it I thought "you know, maybe some of what he is saying is true", and perhaps we ought to "re-examine ourselves", to see if we "be found to be in the faith", or in some other fake counterfeit system. Are any of his observations valid? (yeah, I know, he's pretty radical)
PS: I didn't post this because "I agree" with the guy. (or necessarily anything else on their website). I did it because it points out several things that may, or may not be, things that are reason to reconsider the way we practice Christianity in general. (and particularly in the USA) Do we "brush this guy's accusations off", or should we be considering any of them? What do you all think?
Bud
I think that anybody who finds it necessary to undercut another person's position to make his look good doesn't have much of a postion himself. The link was a hate-based "rank/diatribe" by some guy who is simply trying to justify his animosity towards a number of different belief systems. People like him turn my stomach.
I think that anybody who finds it necessary to undercut another person's position to make his look good doesn't have much of a postion himself. The link was a hate-based "rank/diatribe" by some guy who is simply trying to justify his animosity towards a number of different belief systems. People like him turn my stomach.
I found his website when I was looking for some Universalist information and I've read some of stuff on that link, but I frequent Tentmaker the most. I believe there was some kind of scuffle between him (Victor Hafichuck), L. Ray Smith and Tentmaker at one point. Victor seems to feel the need to talk down to everybody, or at least "lovingly" point out everybody else's motes. Not much edifying going on there.
I've been trying to figure out what exactly is going on. Just more nonsense, probably.
Not only did Jonathan Edwards, and many others like him, add to God's word, but he directed his lies at the heathen, taking what Jesus meant for the Religious Pharisees and twisting it into something so horrible that people committed suicide.
Suicide: Not a fruit of the Spirit.
Here is a piece of a sermon that came crashing down on the heathen in 1741........
Jonathan Edwards 1741: You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep..."
"...O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell...and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment..." "
What a truly disgusting man Edwards was! Ugh!
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