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And God said to him (Abimelech) in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
- Genesis 20:6
How is this explained in light of the idea that man has free will? Can god stop man from sinning?
And God said to him (Abimelech) in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
- Genesis 20:6
How is this explained in light of the idea that man has free will? Can god stop man from sinning?
Apparently he can....but I'm sure we'll see some pretty gloss overs for that little ugly fact.
And God said to him (Abimelech) in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
- Genesis 20:6
How is this explained in light of the idea that man has free will? Can god stop man from sinning?
He still had free will however, the way I'm understanding it is that his mind was not in balance with his heart. The intent was to not sin so that is what happened. Of course, it's still speculation as we have no way of knowing if what is written is true or if was an idea.
And God said to him (Abimelech) in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
- Genesis 20:6
How is this explained in light of the idea that man has free will? Can god stop man from sinning?
Hi Insane,
Yes, quite obviously scripture says man does not have a free will. Yes, God can stop a man from sinning when it is time for it to happen. Scripture actually says that it is God who directs a man's steps. It is God who bends the heart of a King wherever He pleases. It is God who hardens man's hearts. It is God who raises vessels of honor & dishonor. It is God who is working all things according to His will. It is God who has subjected mankind to futility and vanity so that He can have mercy on us and eventually redeem us. etc. etc. etc. God is in control, man is not. Regardless of whether you even believe in God or not, this is what the bible says.
Of course proponents of free will say that they must have free will because they can make a choice! But these discussions are always tricky because the definition of free will is not nailed down. Of course we can make a choice. But that cannot be what free will is. Computers make choices. Cats make choices. Even mosquitoes make choices. But I don't think any of them have a free will. And so scripture says we can make choices. So what - it does not say we have this alleged "free will".
When people talk about "free will", what they really mean is the ability to make a choice completely on our own without any outside or undue influence. And that my friend is an impossibility. Every choice we make has a reason. Every choice we make has a cause. Think of any choice you made in your entire life. There will be a reason or a cause that influenced and yes caused you to make that choice. Throughout the entire universe, there is no event that has happened which was not caused by some previous event. This is called the law of cause & effect, and this is why we do not have free will. Going back to scripture it even confirms this by saying we cannot choose to do good or choose to come to Christ unless God has enabled that to happen. Cause & effect.
So scripturally free will cannot be supported. And the laws of the universe disprove free will. For the final nail in the coffin, look at the logical proof against free will (granted assuming there is an all-knowing God with perfect foreknowledge). It is quite simple:
1. God is all-knowing, including knowing all future events.
2. Therefore we cannot choose to do anything other than what God already knows we will choose.
3. Therefore NO FREE WILL -> free will implies we can make any choice, but #1 precludes that -> we can only make the choice that God already knows we will make.
So there you have it. Free will does not exist. But the remarkable thing is that 99.9% people (just a guestimate) of all people that have lived - whether atheist, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, or any other religion - all of these people believe they have a free will. Its a great deception upon most people who don't think about it or don't care about it.
InsaneInDaMembrane, do you think we have a free will that allows us to make free choices independent from any cause or reason or event? Its an impossibility.
When discussing free will, we must also be careful to not be bogged down in straw men arguments that might imply that we "must" have free will. Example:
I have free will, no one FORCES me to do anything. I am not a ROBOT, I have FREE WILL!
etc.
But these are just straw men. If we do not have free will, it does not mean we are a "robot" or are forced to do anything. In fact, we all quite happily volunteer to do what we want to do. We act on our desires. This drives our decisions. Desires, along with circumstances, environment, and experience are all inputs into our decision making.
Consider: We can do what we like, but we can't choose what we like.
Example: I hate raspberries. Hated them ever since I was a kid. So I voluntarily choose to not eat them because I don't like them. My family thinks I'm nuts - they all love raspberries. So while I can choose to not eat them, I cannot choose to suddenly start liking them. Something must change - a cause or a reason - and then perhaps some day in the future I will like them. But I cannot will it myself of my own alleged "free will" to like raspberries.
Circumstances & environment are huge influences into all of our choices, and we largely have no control over them. No one chose to be born. No one chose to have good parents or bad parents. No one chose to be born in Iraq or the U.S. And those factors will have a GIANT impact on what choices you make later in life.
Think about any major life decision choice you made - ie. going to college, getting married, moving away, etc - and then think about all the tiny events that happened leading up to that decision that in fact CAUSED you to make that decision. Its like a butterfly effect.
Cause & effect. It is the pride of man to think he is in control of his own destiny, when in fact he is riding on a matrix of thousands of millions of choices & events & causes & reasons that is giving him the experience of this life.
Yes, quite obviously scripture says man does not have a free will. Yes, God can stop a man from sinning when it is time for it to happen. Scripture actually says that it is God who directs a man's steps. It is God who bends the heart of a King wherever He pleases. It is God who hardens man's hearts. It is God who raises vessels of honor & dishonor. It is God who is working all things according to His will. It is God who has subjected mankind to futility and vanity so that He can have mercy on us and eventually redeem us. etc. etc. etc. God is in control, man is not. Regardless of whether you even believe in God or not, this is what the bible says.
Of course proponents of free will say that they must have free will because they can make a choice! But these discussions are always tricky because the definition of free will is not nailed down. Of course we can make a choice. But that cannot be what free will is. Computers make choices. Cats make choices. Even mosquitoes make choices. But I don't think any of them have a free will. And so scripture says we can make choices. So what - it does not say we have this alleged "free will".
When people talk about "free will", what they really mean is the ability to make a choice completely on our own without any outside or undue influence. And that my friend is an impossibility. Every choice we make has a reason. Every choice we make has a cause. Think of any choice you made in your entire life. There will be a reason or a cause that influenced and yes caused you to make that choice. Throughout the entire universe, there is no event that has happened which was not caused by some previous event. This is called the law of cause & effect, and this is why we do not have free will. Going back to scripture it even confirms this by saying we cannot choose to do good or choose to come to Christ unless God has enabled that to happen. Cause & effect.
So scripturally free will cannot be supported. And the laws of the universe disprove free will. For the final nail in the coffin, look at the logical proof against free will (granted assuming there is an all-knowing God with perfect foreknowledge). It is quite simple:
1. God is all-knowing, including knowing all future events.
2. Therefore we cannot choose to do anything other than what God already knows we will choose.
3. Therefore NO FREE WILL -> free will implies we can make any choice, but #1 precludes that -> we can only make the choice that God already knows we will make.
So there you have it. Free will does not exist. But the remarkable thing is that 99.9% people (just a guestimate) of all people that have lived - whether atheist, agnostic, Christian, Muslim, or any other religion - all of these people believe they have a free will. Its a great deception upon most people who don't think about it or don't care about it.
InsaneInDaMembrane, do you think we have a free will that allows us to make free choices independent from any cause or reason or event? Its an impossibility.
Amen! Romans 6:20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. Romans 7:5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. Romans 8:6 The mind of sinful man [ Or mind set on the flesh] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit,(God is Spirit) if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Philippians 3:21
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under hiscontrol, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. 1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.
If we are not under God's control, then we are under the control of the devil as God allows.
Satan has to ask or petition God.
Job, Peter, Moses body are just a few.
This is why we are to continually offer prayers and petitions to the One who can save us. Sword of the Spirit, The Word of God.
Even Jesus spoke; John 19:11
Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.
Free will is akin to a child learning how to walk while the parent is just a few inches behind with arms outstretched to rescue, when (not if) the child trips...imho!
That verse comes from Genesis, part of the Jewish Bible. In general, Judaism believes in free will. It's a little more complex than that, but the short, simple answer is yes, there is free will. If you want to read more about that in general, here's a wikipedia link, which offers comparisons to Christianity and other religions. Free will in theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From my own studies, I think that in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) God is in control as far as "big picture" things go, the course of history and whatnot, but individuals have free will. Of course, you could also read books and listen to lectures for the rest of your life going much further in depth about the complexities of the philosophies of life according to the Hebrew Bible.
Most Christians who are serious about *their* religion will refute free will based on their own religious texts and traditions, namely, Paul's Epistles and the Gospel of John, and I'm sure there are odds and ends other places. So it very much depends on where you are coming from personally to begin with.
And God said to him (Abimelech) in a dream, “Yes, I know that you did this in the integrity of your heart. For I also withheld you from sinning against Me; therefore I did not let you touch her.
- Genesis 20:6
How is this explained in light of the idea that man has free will? Can god stop man from sinning?
It does show that God kept him from sinning. He was telling God: Look, according towhat Abraham told me I figured she was fair game. I was only going by what I was told. And God said: I know. I did not allow you to touch her.
But what if he did touch her and got a little? God would have allowed it to happen.
Free will is akin to a child learning how to walk while the parent is just a few inches behind with arms outstretched to rescue, when (not if) the child trips...imho!
Peace!
Free will is not being able to love God and not being able to not sin.
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