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IS BELIEF ENOUGH OR DO I HAVE TO BE OBEDIENT ALSO?
For me, I would need to know what the word "enough" means? "Enough" for what?
If we are talking about being Justified before God, it would seem that the very question would prove that the person does not believe the Gospel and IS NOT imputed with the righteousness of Christ. A person who believes that their belief, or faith (let alone their obedience) is required of them in-order to be justified before God, does not believe the Gospel. Consequently, they would not be imputed with Christ's Righteousness.
But I'm not sure if that is what is meant by the word "enough"...
IS BELIEF ENOUGH OR DO I HAVE TO BE OBEDIENT ALSO?
For me, I would need to know what the word "enough" means? "Enough" for what?
If we are talking about being Justified before God, it would seem that the very question would prove that the person does not believe the Gospel and IS NOT imputed with the righteousness of Christ. A person who believes that their belief, or faith (let alone their obedience) is required of them in-order to be justified before God, does not believe the Gospel. Consequently, they would not be imputed with Christ's Righteousness.
But I'm not sure if that is what is meant by the word "enough"...
I do feel since it is Jesus who saves us by Grace, it is posible to be imputed with Righteousness and still not fully understand it. It is very human to want to "help" God.
Is believing John 3:5 enough or do I have to be water baptized to believe
John 3:5 ?
Is believing Hebrews 4 enough or do I have to obey Hebrews 4 to believe
Hebrews 4 ?
Is believing in holiness enough or do I have to obey holiness enough to believe in holiness enough---John 8:31.
Is faith in Christ enough or do I need works with my faith to have faith ?
Is faith confidence in God only or do I need all the book to live out faith in God enough---Romans 10:17.
Is believing all the book enough or do I need to have a perfectionist life in living out the book enough to believe---Luke 4:4 and John 8:31.
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Originally Posted by Enow
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It is true that they can never lose their salvation once they have been bought with a price and sealed as His, BUT it is their first inheritance which is in jeopardy if any believer decides to make like the prodigal son in living the wild life, they will find that they have given up their first inheritance which is to be that vessel unto honour in God's House: the elect aka the disciples.
There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over the loss of their first inheritance when they see they have been left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event which is also when judgment will fall on the House of God at that time, seperating the foolish virgins that has departed from faith from the chaste bride of Christ that kept the faith as well as seperating the prodigal son from the loyal son.
There is a high calling of Christ and a race to run to be that vessel unto honour in God's House, but there is a rest in Jesus Christ that we are His as we look to the author and finsiher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight and sin that so easily besets us so we are able to run the race.
Notice here how those overthrown in their faith are still His.
2 Timothy 2: 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
So there is a call to every believer that name the name of Christ to depart from iniquity. Even those that had believed but no longer are still His, but they run the risk of being left behind if they are still denying Him when judgment falls on the House of God: they miss out on that eternal glory which comes with our salvation which is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2: 10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
If we put into remembrance what happens at salvation, we know that every believer has been bought with a price and sealed as His, but how they build on that foundation will show how they are living that personal reconciled relationship with Jesus Christ. If they only build upon it wood, stubble, and hay, then when judgment falls on the House of God, the "temple" of God will be destroyed and thus becoming a vessel unto dishonour in His house and yet he shall be saved as through fire.
1 Corinthians 3:10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are....21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
1 Corinthians 6:19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
So there is a call to depart from iniquity for every believer as we look to Jesus Christ and trust Him as Our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight and sin that so easily besets us so we can obtain that eternal glory of being that vessel unto honour in God;s House that comes with our salvation which is in Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 12: 1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
I would emphasize once again that it is not salvation which is at stake, but the first inheritance and why every believer should be exhorted to be that vessel unto honour in God's House by heeding that high calling of Christ.
Philippians 3: 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:13I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
So for those that have gone astray and have become deceased:
John 6: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Yet for those that have gone astray and are still among the living:
2 Corinthians 5: 7(For we walk by faith, not by sight8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
No believer will want to be left behind or become that vessel unto dishonour in God's House. The loss will be severe enough that God will have to wipe away those tears in order for those believers to get past their losses, but make no mistake: it is a loss. Once the doors are shut for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, that inheritance can never be had ever again so that call is urgent.
No one can lose their salvation: but they can lose their first inheritance. How we run that race is important as it must always be done by faith in Jesus Christ wherein is our resting place.
Colossians 1:20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;....27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
If every believer knows about the reality of their new life in Christ in that He is with us always as being in us, how then should we live but to walk with God?
You have to discern what God is meaning about seperating the vessels unto honour from the vessels unto dishonour in His House.
Once you have determined that this seperation occurs when judgment falls on the House of God first, then you can see how the foolish virgins that were left behind WILL have oil for their lamps to be shining and see how the prodigal sons will be returning because they are still sons.
The pre tribulational rapture event is when judgment will fall on the House of God first as the elect will be the chaste brides received by Christ for being ready and found abiding in Him thanks to the Good Shepherd as it is the truth that the just shall live by faith in Him & all His promises to us.
The power of God in slavation will be seen in Jesus Christ in how He will finish His work in those left behind because they have been bought with a price and sealed as His. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over their loss, but God will wipe away the tears from their eyes to get past their loss.
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God calls that as "shrinks back" from "by faith".
Hebrews 10:38 "But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him."
Hebrews 10: 37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
I had always believed that this was referring to His appearing at the pre tribulational rapture event when those that believe and yet draw back because their hope was not solely upon Him but on themselves as well.
When any believer divides their hope in Christ with works for justification, they will draw back because they have no assurance that they have done enough. There is a rest for the people of God, and those that draw back are those that labour in unbelief.
Living the christian life has to be applied by the same faith the believer has for eternal life....with their hope singularly upon the Lord Jesus Christ.
The secret of being overcomers is here below:
1 John 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1 John 5:4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Granted, we are not to make any provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof, to avoid reaping corruption, but the faith in Jesus Christ as Our Good Shepherd is that He will chasten us whenever we go astray for we place our trust in Him to do what He came to do.. to help us live as His.
But emphasizing salvation as being one that can be lost is a religious work denying the One that has bought us. Either we rest in Him that we are His or we are saying that He is not able to save and we must save ourselves or keep ourselves saved.
It will be no wonder to me when many believers draw back because they are placing some of that hope on themselves to get to Heaven when it should have been all on Jesus Christ in living the christian life as well as for eternal life, because no flesh shall glory in His presence.
"You can lose your health, if you neglect it through unscrupulous living."
I contend that it is not salvation, but the first inheritance that every believer is in jeopardy of losing through neglect and unscrupulous living. Those in error will run the risk of being left behind at the pre tribulational rapture event which is the time when judgment will fall on the House of God first so that He may restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake for all those left behind as the foolish virgins will have oil for their lamps and be shining as the prodigal sons will be returning because they are still sons.
IS BELIEF ENOUGH OR DO I HAVE TO BE OBEDIENT ALSO?
For me, I would need to know what the word "enough" means? "Enough" for what?
If we are talking about being Justified before God, it would seem that the very question would prove that the person does not believe the Gospel and IS NOT imputed with the righteousness of Christ. A person who believes that their belief, or faith (let alone their obedience) is required of them in-order to be justified before God, does not believe the Gospel. Consequently, they would not be imputed with Christ's Righteousness.
But I'm not sure if that is what is meant by the word "enough"...
You got it. Enough is referring to being saved thus causing the wayward into thinking along the lines of keeping oneself saved.
Those wayward believers are still His since it is by believing that God raised Jesus from the dead that they are saved, but their beliefs wasn't mixed with faith to those that heard the Gospel and so they wind up labouring in unbelief religiously...and running the risk of being left behind when judgment falls on the House of God first at the pre tribulational rapture event.
Believers need to rest in Jesus Christ that they are svaed and He can never lose them otherwise where is the power of God in salvation if He can lose those He had saved? What would be to His glory to save someone He knew He would lose in the end? None.
So the point in question is not about salvation being lost: as some are seeing that implied in the scriptures in error, but heeding that high calling of Christ to be that vessel unto honour in His House as opposing becoming that vessel unto dishonour in God's House through neglect and unscrupulous living.
Once saved, they are always His but every believer is in danger of losing that first inheritance unless they trust Jesus Christ to be the Good Shepherd in helping them live the christian life.
I do feel since it is Jesus who saves us by Grace, it is posible to be imputed with Righteousness and still not fully understand it. It is very human to want to "help" God.
That is why not very many mighty men and nobles are called because the religious in the world sees any opportunity to get a pat on the back is a path towards pride and self righteousness.
That is why the poor in spirit are blessed because they know they can't do it and that is why little children are free to come to Him as all they can do is trust the Lord.
It is written that unless we receive the Kingdom of God as a child does, we shall in no wise enter therein since no flesh shall glory in His presence, there will be no stuck ups in Hevaen exalting themselves over anybody else simply because they will all be there because of Jesus Christ.
Those religious christians that shall be left behind will be leaving their works in the dust for their pride to cease and know that when entering in His presence, it will be because of Jesus Christ: nothing they did.
Is believing John 3:5 enough or do I have to be water baptized to believe John 3:5 ?
You have to follow the whole conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus. Jesus said that no one can tell WHEN one is born again and that has to include water baptism, but He went on to explain HOW one is born again and that is by believing. John 3:1-21 You have to read the whole conversation in context to know the meaning of His words in John 3:5 since Nicodemus referred to natural birth, one can only guess to the allegorical reference to water, but it is obvious that Jesus was depciting that no one can tell when one is born again and thus water baptism cannot serve as a pivotal point in anyone's conversion. Again, Jesus went on to explain HOW one is born again and Gentiles believers that were born again before coming forward, before confessing Jesus, and even before water baptism, had received the Holy Ghost upon believing what they were hearing is proof of that. Acts 10:34-48
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Is believing Hebrews 4 enough or do I have to obey Hebrews 4 to believe Hebrews 4 ?
Ironically that you should choose that verse since believers that believe that God raised Jesus from the dead are saved but yet are labouring in unbelief when they believe they must keep themselves saved instead of seeing it as heeding the high calling of Christ to be that vessel unto honour in God's House.
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Is believing in holiness enough or do I have to obey holiness enough to believe in holiness enough---John 8:31.
John 8: 31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Jesus gave the disciples the commandment to train disciples. Not every believer will know the reality that Jesus Christ is in us as being with us always. The only way for our love to abound yet more and more is by the knowledge of Him and His words. It is on the disciples ot bear fruit and to teach others what He has taught them.
We serve Him by the same grace we live the christain life.
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Is faith in Christ enough or do I need works with my faith to have faith ?
It depends on what faith you are referring to. If the "faith without works" theme from the Book of James, then that faith is referring to the faith in God's Providence: not salvation. One should not voice faith in God's Providence to the poor in getting out of providing for the needs of the poor especially when the church has the means to meet those needs today. That is what is meant by that faith in God's Providence as not being profittable to the poor in that it cannot save the poor from the elements and starvation....and yet at the same time, in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's Providence was dead. So for that faith in God's Providence to be seen, then the church has to exercise that faith by giving to the poor from the bounty that was collected that the church does not immediately need at the moment, but the poor do.
Now regarding faith towards salvation:
Romans 4: 1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Colossians 1:20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
So let us not move away from that faith in what Christ Jesus has done.
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Is faith confidence in God only or do I need all the book to live out faith in God enough---Romans 10:17.
Hearing the Gospel and thus believing is enough for salvation to occur.
Romans 10: 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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Is believing all the book enough or do I need to have a perfectionist life in living out the book enough to believe---Luke 4:4 and John 8:31.
If any believer wishes to follow Jesus: to live that life with God in loving others even it means telling them the truth for their sake, then they shall be His disciples with His help through His words.
It is by far better to live with God now since we are going to live with Him for all eternity. The stuff of this life that is passing away is hardly worth our attention in light of eternity, and since He is with us always, should we not live as such?
Colossians 1:27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
1 John 2: 15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
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Clarification
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 
