Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Chiming in with Bright Hope for Tomorrow - Revelation is a literary genre of dream vision. The symbolism used is consistent with that genre of writing in that time period. Kind of like the Harlequin romance novels I used to read by the boxful all featured a tall dark handsome hero who drove a foreign sports car, apocalyptic literature also has common elements. Some of these are revelations made to a human by an angel, numerology, extravagant imagery, and the expectation of the end of the world. Now, I do like me a tall dark handsome hero with a foreign sports car, but I don't get take them too literally. Similarly, I don't take winged beasts or weird numerology, or end times stuff to literally either. Read and study Revelations for its symbolism or just for the joy of reading such a crazy book, but don't take everything as, well, as Gospel. Because it ain't.
People should read what Thomas Jefferson had to say about Revelation:
Quote:
Thomas Jefferson TO GENERAL ALEXANDER SMYTH MONTICELLO
January 17 1825
DEAR SIR,
I have duly received four proof sheets of your explanation of the Apocalypse with your letters of December 29th and January 8th.
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it and I then considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams. I do not consider them [to be] revelations of the Supreme Being whom I would not so far blaspheme as to impute to Him a pretension of revelation couched at the same time in terms which He would know were never to be understood by those to whom they were addressed.
1. If you weren't expecting a response, why would you send a four page letter in the first place? (1008 words in total and 250 equal one page in the publishing world.)
2. I'm not surprised at the answer you received. You claimed to be too busy to write a 30 page letter but expected the author to not be too busy to respond to all of your questions? That's why you have a pastor and elders in the church. Counseling you is not the author's job.
I think the response you received was perfect. It shows that they took the time to read your letter in the first place. (And just how many letters, not to mention lengthy ones, do you think they receive on a daily basis?) You asked questions that were apparently answered in the book already. Any further discussion or clarification would rightfully be done with your pastor, an elder, a friend you trust, etc.,
If you had written to the author with one question that you really wanted to know, and kept the letter short (respecting the author's time), I'm certain you would likely have received a far different response.
I would strongly agree with Led Zeppelin: the more radical fringe of Christianity in this country who call themselves Evangelicals have effectively put Christianity in a strait-jacket by hijacking all reason and logic. The inmates are running the asylum.
No. I would not go so far as to lump one particular denomination or sector of Christians into the "bag guys" category. But, this illustrates what I'm talking about. Christianity is about a personal relationship. Not a political grouping or a collective identification with "the right people". It's too easy to just lump an entire population under some vague term like "evangelical" and call them "crazy". I've been familiar enough with evangelicals over the last 40 years to know that no 2 of them think exactly alike about anything.
Moreover, there is enough heresy and misdirection going on everywhere to make it easy to see... there's a LOT of bad groups across the spectrum. Too liberal. Too legalistic. Like I said. America has turned Christianity into a joke. Let's start with the whole 501c3 zoo, if you're looking for the broadest most pervasive problem, in my opinon.
Not only are the inmates RUNNING the asylum. Worse yet... they've BUILT the asylum. They've built a BUNCH of them.
No. I would not go so far as to lump one particular denomination or sector of Christians into the "bag guys" category. But, this illustrates what I'm talking about. Christianity is about a personal relationship. Not a political grouping or a collective identification with "the right people". It's too easy to just lump an entire population under some vague term like "evangelical" and call them "crazy". I've been familiar enough with evangelicals over the last 40 years to know that no 2 of them think exactly alike about anything.
Moreover, there is enough heresy and misdirection going on everywhere to make it easy to see... there's a LOT of bad groups across the spectrum. Too liberal. Too legalistic. Like I said. America has turned Christianity into a joke. Let's start with the whole 501c3 zoo, if you're looking for the broadest most pervasive problem, in my opinon.
Not only are the inmates RUNNING the asylum. Worse yet... they've BUILT the asylum. They've built a BUNCH of them.
Yes, of course my comment is "qualified". There is a whole spectrum of Christians out there and many, if not most of these "radicals" are radical without even being aware of it. They are swept into a movement like Falwell's Moral Majority for no other reason than they like the sound of it--they haven't a clue about what it stands for.
Most Christians are decent, hardworking, God-loving God-fearing people. Their major problem is they are too lazy or too busy to sit down and educate themselves about what they are signing up for. "If it's good enough for my congressman, whoever the hell he is, it's good enough for me."
[quote=ditchlights;15976748]I have prayed many times that God just put the "Vulcan Mind Melt" on me so that I can appreciate the lifestyle that a "true" Christian does.
I have watched people struggle with faith in God throughout their lives. They try so hard, yet fail in the end.
They say that there are roughly 2 billion "Chistians" on the planet. This, of course, includes many faiths that are not going to Heaven according to Biblical definitions of Christianity, such as Mormons, JW's, and Catholics.
I cannot hold logical debate with my mother, as she ends all discussions with me when she gets flustered. She proves the validity of the Bible with the Bible, and that ends all arguments as far as she is concerned. Once complex issues enter the equation, she ends the conversation, as it is a threat to her belief system.
Thank You,
Mark (Oregon)
/QUOTE]
Well, um, I have a few answers for you if it helps you any further in your quest:
(1) You've been praying to God for the wrong thing. What you want to ask Him for is the "Vulcan Mind MELD". You've been asking Him to "melt" your thoughts - that might be the problem right there.
(2) I've rarely struggled with Faith. As a matter of fact, it's been my mainstay and my salvation. Perhaps you've been going to the wrong church?
(3) Erm, pardon me? Who said I wasn't going to Heaven? Because Jesus and God told me I WAS - and so did my Mother. Who has been busy excluding all these different groups when we've already RSVP'd and been accepted by God our Almighty Father?
(4) Never mind about your Mom. Look at my statement above. Are you going to argue with me that I'm NOT going to heaven because some earth bound preacher told you so? Are you going to get all flustered when, if God is kind enough to you, you walk into Heaven and there I am to wave you in with one hand while clutching my rosary beads in my other hand?
Yes, of course my comment is "qualified". There is a whole spectrum of Christians out there and many, if not most of these "radicals" are radical without even being aware of it. They are swept into a movement like Falwell's Moral Majority for no other reason than they like the sound of it--they haven't a clue about what it stands for.
Most Christians are decent, hardworking, God-loving God-fearing people. Their major problem is they are too lazy or too busy to sit down and educate themselves about what they are signing up for. "If it's good enough for my congressman, whoever the hell he is, it's good enough for me."
The laughable thing about Bill Weise is,there are many have experienced years of hell on earth because of the crap, they have openly received to themselves about what he believes about God (I'm being polite about what he believes)
Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?"
And the following is the response that I got from Bill's wife Annette:
Thanks for writing. Most of your questions are addressed in Bill’s new book, “23 Questions about hell” which comes with a bonus DVD. If you don’t want to spend the $10-15 for the book/DVD, I’m sure you can read it while at Wal-mart or a bookstore. We encourage you to get scriptural information first, before falsely accusing God of being unfair. Mark Twain even said, “We’re all ignorant, it’s just about different things.”
Hosea 4:6 says, “My people perish for a lack of knowledge… because they have rejected knowledge (God’s Word).
I agree with her 100%.
Read it for free somewhere.
Believe the Scriptures, or else.
BTW, my spiritual testimony would blow your mind.
But, again, either you believe it, or you don't.
I'll share it with you, if you ask.
23 minutes in hell? why not 30 minutes...why not one hour? why not 5 hours?? God can do anything,right?
oh,but 23 minutes makes it sound so techinical!
obviously as lie,starting with the title.
Ah, but 23 is a prime number, giving it mystical significance. Just like 13 and 7, which occur throughout the bible. 31 is also a prime, so that would have worked too
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
