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Well, let me try to explain that to you. I was a Christian a loong time ago, not anymore and I do not believe in the Bible as the word of God or Jesus as the Son of God.
As far as what many Christians say they do not believe the Bible approves a man having sex with another man and the same between two women. In their eyes that is an abomination in the eyes of God.
I have heard some Christians that even if you are gay because you are born that way the sin part is if you act on your orientation.
Whether that is right or wrong tha is how I understand they believe. Now, many gays do want to force Christians that gay is right. Well, don't do the same you accuse Christians of doing. Let them believe how they want and if they do not want you in their church, so what? Nothing wrong with a group having their own criteria in what type of member they want to accept. Just as you do not want them to impose their moral views on them do not try to demand your moral views on them.
As far as I am concerned the government should stay out of these issue. Christianst can marry who they want and gays can marry who the want also. The government should only provide benefits to partners that have a family agreement whatever that may be, take care.
Most gays don't care about what crazy fundies believe and what kind of hate they spew in their own churches. It becomes an issue, when they take it out of the church and push into secular law. They have no right to force their beliefs on the rest of the American population. Marriage is not a religious institution in the United States, and if it were, Atheists would be banned from marriage too. And yet, conservatives want to ban gays from having a secular marriage, because of their personal beliefs on how God feels about it.
That's unconstitutional. If they want to continue acting like Fred Phelps in their own church/family - go for it. Enjoy being giant bigots. When you throw your beliefs into the legal and political realm - being criticized is well deserved.
Most gays don't care about what crazy fundies believe and what kind of hate they spew in their own churches. It becomes an issue, when they take it out of the church and push into secular law. They have no right to force their beliefs on the rest of the American population. Marriage is not a religious institution in the United States, and if it were, Atheists would be banned from marriage too. And yet, conservatives want to ban gays from having a secular marriage, because of their personal beliefs on how God feels about it.
That's unconstitutional. If they want to continue acting like Fred Phelps in their own church/family - go for it. Enjoy being giant bigots. When you throw your beliefs into the legal and political realm - being criticized is well deserved.
I do not know why you reply to me. I agree it is unconstitutional. Just reiterate what I wrote? Were you trying to agree or disagree? Take care.
After spending a lot of time on this forum - I have realized that there is no point in trying to convince many of these people that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. They will never see the light. It saddens me greatly but I think the best that can be hoped for is tolerance - not love or acceptance. To me - this is a black and white issue - however what I see as black - they see as white. No amount of reason, compassion, love, or anything else in this world will ever open their minds or their hearts. Part of me thinks that even if God came down and told them himself that he created all of us and loves all of us - and that there is nothing wrong with homosexuals, that love is love - they would be prejudiced. I don't really see a solution. I think it's more important to teach the young people in this world to love and accept all people than to try to change the minds of people who will never see things in a different way.
That's just my two cents.
The reason many christians will not accept homosexuality is because they look at it with a Biblical view. If a person believes the Bible is the word of God then they will believe homosexuality is a sin. God said it. It is wrong. If you accept it then you go against what God says.
You view homosexuality from a worldly view. You made a choice to believe the world over God. That is your choice.
God said he would always provide a way out of temptation. Homosexuals have to decide whether to take the way out or not.
Does this mean we shouldn't love the homosexual? Absolutely not. But we don't have to love the sin.
most christians don't even know what homosexuality IS>
Is it where you take a bunch of folks with varying sexual orientations and put all them in a food processor and blend them into a nice even consistency?
The reason many christians will not accept homosexuality is because they look at it with a Biblical view. If a person believes the Bible is the word of God then they will believe homosexuality is a sin. God said it. It is wrong. If you accept it then you go against what God says.
You view homosexuality from a worldly view. You made a choice to believe the world over God. That is your choice.
God said he would always provide a way out of temptation. Homosexuals have to decide whether to take the way out or not.
Does this mean we shouldn't love the homosexual? Absolutely not. But we don't have to love the sin.
Katie
Well, the Christians who believe this certainly do pick other verses in the Bible not to take literally, certainly in Leviticus. And then turn around and claim not to "pick and choose".
Love is not a temptation. Could you find a "way out of heterosexuality"? Really? You think you could cause yourself to find someone of the same sex attractive, and fall in love with that person? Think about that.
The reason many christians will not accept homosexuality is because they look at it with a Biblical view. If a person believes the Bible is the word of God then they will believe homosexuality is a sin. God said it. It is wrong. If you accept it then you go against what God says.
You view homosexuality from a worldly view. You made a choice to believe the world over God. That is your choice.
God said he would always provide a way out of temptation. Homosexuals have to decide whether to take the way out or not.
Does this mean we shouldn't love the homosexual? Absolutely not. But we don't have to love the sin.
Katie
Correction. Your interpretation of the Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Many many people disagree with your interpretation.
So you believe the Earth is flat since the Bible literally says it is? And the sun revolves around the Earth?
You are aware the Bible was not written in English right? There is no such thing as "nothing to interpret".
If I said, "The park is a zoo". What does that mean?
You make a choice to believe God's Word or not. I choose to believe it, all of it.
By the way, this is a Christian forum, isn't it?. Did the OP expect everyone would agree that homosexuality is okay? IMHO, I think the OP is looking for approval. Most people on the christian forum believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and will disapprove.
As an aside....I just read some studies about homosexuals being born that way. Seems as though it is more of a learned behavior than natural. What say you?
Can you point out the scriptures that say the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth?
I have a question for you, and I really would like an answer. Is incest acceptable in your book?
I really would like to continue this discussion. I hope we can do it respectfully.
You make a choice to believe God's Word or not. I choose to believe it, all of it.
There is a difference between believing the Bible, and believing it's all literal. Jesus most certainly used tons of metaphor and allegory. Most Jews take Genesis metaphorically. All Christians cherry pick Bible verses they agree with, and ignore the ones they don't want to deal with. For example, you see gays condemned constantly using leviticus, and yet Leviticus also tells us to stone children to death, and kill Sabbath breakers (which is all Christians). They claim Paul condemns gays, and yet Jesus said not a word about them. He did, however, say a lot about divorce and adultery - both of which are rampant among Christians.
Gays are attacked not because the Bible condemns them, but because they are an easy target since most Christians will never personally be faced with that challenge. Keep in mind, blacks, Jews, and women have all been discriminated against and oppressed by Christians using the Bible as justification.
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By the way, this is a Christian forum, isn't it?. Did the OP expect everyone would agree that homosexuality is okay? IMHO, I think the OP is looking for approval. Most people on the christian forum believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God and will disapprove.
And anyone who believes the Bible is the Word of God is committing the sin of idolatry. The Bible is a book, not God. John 1 specifically states Jesus is the Word. Jesus is not the Bible.
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As an aside....I just read some studies about homosexuals being born that way. Seems as though it is more of a learned behavior than natural. What say you?
I know for a fact it is something one is born with, or at the very least, is developed at such a young age that no conscious decision is ever made about it. Science seems to support this conclusion based on hormonal changes in pre-natal development and the fact that gays have similar brain structure to the opposite sex, not the same-sex (i.e. gay men have brain sizes comparable to straight women). And when did you choose to be straight? I seriously doubt you woke up one day and said "Hmm, I think I'll be attracted to men for the rest of my life - that sounds like a good idea". There are also plenty of gay Christians who have prayed to God for decades for him to change their orientation. He doesn't do it. If it's such the abomination Christians make it out to be, why doesn't God help those faithful believers who want to change it?
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Can you point out the scriptures that say the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth?
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.” (The earth moves. It rotates, revolves, and shakes).
Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (And before you claim a circle refers to a sphere, it doesn't. A circle is 2 dimensional, and the Earth isn't a circle or a sphere. A canopy also would not fit on a spherical body).
Joshua 10:13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. (The sun doesn't move in relation to our days. The Earth's rotation affects the days. To be accurate, this verse would have to say the Earth stopped rotating.)
Daniel 4:11The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. (Can't see a tree from the ends of the earth. Earth has no ends. Why would Daniel dream about this conception of the Earth?)
Luke 4:5And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
This is how the ancient Hebrews viewed the Earth. This is a literal Biblical view.
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I have a question for you, and I really would like an answer. Is incest acceptable in your book?
Generally no due to the possibility of genetic deformities. Depends on how close the relatives are. Incest was certainly permissible in Genesis though, so I'm not sure the point.
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I really would like to continue this discussion. I hope we can do it respectfully.
If you're willing to be somewhat open minded we can. I've spent too much time trying to explain the gay clobber passages to people who ignore any evidence and basically say nuh uh. It gets frustrating.
Last edited by Fiyero; 05-10-2011 at 07:18 PM..
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