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You are the one who is assuming that I am prejudiced. You don't know me or anything about me. I have both family and friends who are gay. I love them very much and have never shown them prejudice of any kind. Why can't gays understand that because someone thinks your lifestyle is wrong does not make one prejudiced. That's the same kind of thing many people say to anyone who disagrees with Obama's policies. They call them racists, which couldn't be further from the truth.
Thanks for the websites. I've already educated myself with unbiased studies. I'm sure you've picked sites that agree with your thinking.
The Bible calls homosexuality a sin. God will always provide a way out of temptation. It's up to you to choose to take it or not. Those are not my words. They are from inspired by the Holy Spirit writers from both the old and new testaments. I'm not your judge. God is.
Ah, Corinthians 6:9. You do realize that Corinthians was a LETTER to the church of Corinth? And even then, the exact behavior that Paul describes in this case is a certain Roman religious ritual that just so happened to involve sex between a man and a boy, whether the boy liked it or not. You cannot take the English translations for being as they appear, you need the original Greek/Hebrew text in order to understand exactly what is going on. For a very important case of this, read John 21:15-17 and tell me what you find in the English.
NO, actually it does not say a man and a boy. It does say. 1 Cor. 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers (NOR MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH OTHER MEN)
Men who have sex with other men are considered to be wrongdoers, and will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
Scripture could not make it any clearer. And only one with a very bias view, could try to pevert this clear teaching. And of course, this is not an isolated verse.
Leviticus 18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
Last edited by Campbell34; 05-11-2011 at 03:38 PM..
A bible translation that contains the word homosexual or homosexuality can be proven to be in error for using those specific words. From the greek and hebrew definitions you will not find those words so it IS an interpretation to specifically say that the bible is against homosexuality.
They didn't have the concept of being homosexual, but they do seem to have referred to "men who made a woman of themselves" which in context meant men who were penetrated by a man. (I'm a bit uncomfortable getting that graphic.) The Romans tended to disapprove of that, but the Greeks varied. Paul's admonitions on homosexuality refer to "men acting with men as they would a woman", I'm paraphrasing.
In any event it's implicitly not allowed from the Gospels as the Gospels forbid adultery and fornication while specifically referring to marriage as Man/Woman. The only way I can see where you could, theoretically, get around this is to say homosexual sex is sodomy and therefore not sex at all. I do know of cultures that do seem to indicate sodomy is not sex, but "sexual play" akin to making out and may feel that even active homosexuals are essentially virgins. Still even if interpreting homosexuality as "play" gets around the sin issue it would likely be unsatisfying as it's just "play" it's never anything more meaningful. And to be honest I think this is overstating the manner.
Revisionism is fun and all, but it's pretty clear that Old Testament Judaism did not accept homosexual actions and that Jesus in many ways makes OT sexual rules stricter not more lax. Remarriage after divorce is harder, not easier, by the Gospels and even lustful thoughts can be sinful. It's more that punishments have been changed in favor of repentance and self-improvement.
All that said it's not about being a pain to homosexuals, I think it's lot about not living "as the world" would seem to encourage. Most heterosexuals also live disordered sexual lives by the standards of Christian morality. I commit a variety of disordered lusts. Ideally I think a great deal is about dealing with your own burdens and trying to be a better person. Not saying homosexuals are "perpetually inferior" to you as they're probably not even if homosexual sex is a sin.
most christians don't even know what homosexuality IS> homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle it is NOT a choice because it's not an action. homosexuality is an unchosen sexual orientation. The question is aking to asking if black people can be Christians. For some reasons many Christians perceive homosexuality to be a sinful life choice. If you actually TALK to gay people you will discover that those are untrue lies. Gay people know the MOST in this world on what homosexuality MEANS. When somoene says they are gay they are revealing their sexual orientation. They not telling you that they've even ever had sex. When someone tells me that they're straight there is no 'morality' being inferred. They're also not even inferring that they even have ever had sex, they're revealing their sexual orientation. They're revealing an UNCHOSEN sexual orientation... a part of their born core idenity. if you think a sexual orientation is a sin it's akin to thinking a skin color is a sin. Both were equally NOT chosen. Again, this is coming from the first hand source of a gay person
most non-believers don't even know what heterosexuality IS> heterosexuality is NOT a lifestyle it is NOT a choice because it's not an action. heterosexuality is an unchosen sexual orientation. The question is aking to asking if white people can be non-believers. For some reasons many non-believers perceive heterosexuality to be a sinful life choice. If you actually TALK to straight people you will discover that those are untrue lies. str8 people know the MOST in this world on what heterosexuality MEANS. When somoene says they are str8 they are revealing their sexual orientation. They not telling you that they've even ever had sex. When someone tells me that they're straight there is no 'morality' being inferred. They're also not even inferring that they even have ever had sex, they're revealing their sexual orientation. They're revealing an UNCHOSEN sexual orientation... a part of their born core idenity. if you think a sexual orientation is a sin it's akin to thinking a skin color is a sin. Both were equally NOT chosen. Again, this is coming from the first hand source of a str8 person
Nothing. There's nothing to say. Yes we do know what homosexuality is, it was practiced in Sodom and Gomorrah or at least that's what was taught. I'm not myself tonight, someone is talking for me. I got no problem with homosexuals.
Nothing. There's nothing to say. Yes we do know what homosexuality is, it was practiced in Sodom and Gomorrah or at least that's what was taught. I'm not myself tonight, someone is talking for me. I got no problem with homosexuals.
If you have no problem with the sin of homosexality. Then the only problem you would have is with the God of the Bible who condems it.
A bible translation that contains the word homosexual or homosexuality can be proven to be in error for using those specific words. From the greek and hebrew definitions you will not find those words so it IS an interpretation to specifically say that the bible is against homosexuality.
1 Cor 6:9 states men having sex with other men. So it is not a big jump to use the word homosexual. And it states that such men who do this are wrongdoers. Suggesting that the Bible is not against homosexuality is simply ignoring the obvious. No matter how you play with words, the Bible views men having sex with other men as both evil and wrong.
Religion is a belief, that has not been proven to be factual. Our constitution clearly states separation of church and state. The bible is apparently the only thing saying homosexuality is wrong. Again, the bible is fictional, since it has not been proven as fact. So, I don't get why people spend so much time arguing the morality of homosexuality when their religion is their own belief. Again, their own belief. Not the law. A belief. Like Santa Claus. Or 9/11 conspiracies.
You're welcome to act however you wish in your house or your place of worship. However, discrimination, towards sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, etc is wrong.
Why people have a hard time grasping this VERY simple concept, absolutely blows my mind.
Religion is a belief, that has not been proven to be factual. Our constitution clearly states separation of church and state. The bible is apparently the only thing saying homosexuality is wrong. Again, the bible is fictional, since it has not been proven as fact. So, I don't get why people spend so much time arguing the morality of homosexuality when their religion is their own belief. Again, their own belief. Not the law. A belief. Like Santa Claus. Or 9/11 conspiracies.
You're welcome to act however you wish in your house or your place of worship. However, discrimination, towards sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, etc is wrong.
Why people have a hard time grasping this VERY simple concept, absolutely blows my mind.
The Bible is fictional because it has not been proven to be fact? Because something has not been proven does not make it fictional. And the fact is, the Bible is filled with facts. And since when is someone guilty of discrimination, only because they believe the Bible?
They didn't have the concept of being homosexual, but they do seem to have referred to "men who made a woman of themselves" which in context meant men who were penetrated by a man. (I'm a bit uncomfortable getting that graphic.) The Romans tended to disapprove of that, but the Greeks varied. Paul's admonitions on homosexuality refer to "men acting with men as they would a woman", I'm paraphrasing.
In any event it's implicitly not allowed from the Gospels as the Gospels forbid adultery and fornication while specifically referring to marriage as Man/Woman. The only way I can see where you could, theoretically, get around this is to say homosexual sex is sodomy and therefore not sex at all. I do know of cultures that do seem to indicate sodomy is not sex, but "sexual play" akin to making out and may feel that even active homosexuals are essentially virgins. Still even if interpreting homosexuality as "play" gets around the sin issue it would likely be unsatisfying as it's just "play" it's never anything more meaningful. And to be honest I think this is overstating the manner.
Revisionism is fun and all, but it's pretty clear that Old Testament Judaism did not accept homosexual actions and that Jesus in many ways makes OT sexual rules stricter not more lax. Remarriage after divorce is harder, not easier, by the Gospels and even lustful thoughts can be sinful. It's more that punishments have been changed in favor of repentance and self-improvement.
All that said it's not about being a pain to homosexuals, I think it's lot about not living "as the world" would seem to encourage. Most heterosexuals also live disordered sexual lives by the standards of Christian morality. I commit a variety of disordered lusts. Ideally I think a great deal is about dealing with your own burdens and trying to be a better person. Not saying homosexuals are "perpetually inferior" to you as they're probably not even if homosexual sex is a sin.
The problem is that homosexuality is inherantly on the short end of the stick when it comes to biblical interpretation because they cannot get married, so even if two homosexuals are monogomous and live with the intent of staying together it can be construed as adultery because , well, they are not married.
The old testament is silent on both male and female homosexuality as an orientation, it does talk about a male sex act in context with a passage that is speaking primarily about physical cleanliness. I'll be the first to ruffle feathers towards any orientation that doesn't see the uncleanliness of certain behaviors. There are many homosexuals who never engage in the act described in the old testament. And no matter what you believe a culture may have thought about it, the old testament wording cannot be applied to lesbians.
In the new testament the closest the definitions may come to talking about homosexuality is male prostitute, you do not have to be a homosexual to be a male prostitute. You may believe otherwise, but writers of a translation that use the word homosexual or homosexuality are in error for using those words, it is just a fact.
The new testament is gear towards helping people understand the spiritual nature of things, this includes the understanding that male and female has more to do with a persons spirit than it does what they look like physically. It also helps us understand the nature of loving relationships. It is mighty convenient that Christians inherantly categorize homosexuality as adultery to justify the implication when if the law of the land allowed them to get married that rationalizatioon evaporates and places them on the same leval as heterosexual unions.
Your comment about revisionism is the key point, it is as if traditional views are absolute truth and cannot be wrong. Well, that can depend upon a persons perspective I suppose. I grew up around a long line of generational thinking that infered the unequally yoked verses to mean that whites marrying blacks was against God. But revisionism is fun and all, but perhaps they are correct simply because generation after generation believed it huh?
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........because I am not tolerant of intolerance and intellectual ignorance.