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[quote=Reverend1111;19258926]Homosexuality is not a choice just as being heterosexual is not a choice. If you are straight, I bet dollars to donuts you couldn't, even if you tried, become a homosexual. Our sexual orientation is INATE in us. Those who are male and have a female orientation only means that they have a female soul. The soul has no sexual counterparts. A soul cannot even have sex the way the human being has sex. The material body is FOR THIS WORLD ONLY. The soul is eternal if it chooses. So whether or not somone is heterosexual, they must adhere to the Laws of God. That first Law is the Law of Love in which covers all other Laws.Most heterosexuals break that Law more than homosexuals.[/quote]
I won't challenge the philosophy, or theology you're living by, but as a Christian I can say that your opinion is focusing on a small portion of scripture, completely dismissing portions which may not be to your liking, thereby creating a new belief system. Love is a basic component of almost every religion to some degree, but repentance, and salvation through Jesus Christ is unique to Christianity. A person is of course free to adhere to biblical instruction, or to disregard it in unbelief, but when the scriptures contained in the bible are followed selectively, there is a point at which that person's belief system can no longer be considered Christianity.
The choice to be sexually intimate with a member of the same sex is a choice, for both heterosexuals and homosexuals, however, heterosexuals are anatomically suited for procreation, while homosexuals clearly are not. The bible is filled with acts of sexual intimacy occurring between men and women, but there are no accounts of sexual intimacy, found in the bible, between members of the same sex. Homosexual desires were expressed by the sexually immoral inhabitants of a city called sodom, in the book of Genesis, who attempted to press their way through to have sex with male visitors, (angels), who were in the home of a man named Lot, (Abraham's nephew). The men were blinded by the angels, so that they could not continue, and Lot and his family were subsequently warned that the city of Sodom would be destroyed. Before the destruction, Lot escaped with his two daughters.
This would be one example of a portion of scripture which you might find unsuitable for the tailor made 'Love philosophy' you've developed. I'll have to take your word for it, on the accusation that heterosexuals have broken certain laws more than heterosexuals, assuming you've taken a respectable survey.
There are no physiological differences between heterosexuals and those claiming to be homosexual, and to date, no one has proven anything to the contrary. If by 'innate', you mean, inborn, or somehow interwoven into the natural development, or dna of a person, I reiterate that there is no evidence to support your claim.
Let me give you some examples of abnormal sexual orientation which might clarify an important point. A simple explanation of sexual orientation would be (Wikipedia), emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction. In the case of someone suffering from zoophilia, or bestiality, we would have to conclude that this is their sexual orientation, because they are emotionally, romantically, and sexually attracted to animals.
What psychology has done, (specifically, the cowardly dive taken by the APA in the 1973 declassification) is, eliminate the possibility that homosexuality, and other psycho-sexual disorders, are similar, differing only by the fact that the objects of affection, in the cases of homosexuals, happen to be a human beings of the same sex. I maintain, that regardless of the object of affection, various types of sexual orientation are abnormal, and can represent an interruption in normal sexual development, ie.. (abuse, molestation by predator, gender confusion etc..), and as such, should be given equal place among the various other psycho-sexual disorders.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 05-22-2011 at 03:30 PM..
Homosexuality is not a choice just as being heterosexual is not a choice. If you are straight, I bet dollars to donuts you couldn't, even if you tried, become a homosexual. Our sexual orientation is INATE in us. Those who are male and have a female orientation only means that they have a female soul. The soul has no sexual counterparts. A soul cannot even have sex the way the human being has sex. The material body is FOR THIS WORLD ONLY. The soul is eternal if it chooses. So whether or not somone is heterosexual, they must adhere to the Laws of God. That first Law is the Law of Love in which covers all other Laws.Most heterosexuals break that Law more than homosexuals.[/quote]
I won't challenge the philosophy, or theology you're living by, but as a Christian I can say that your opinion is focusing on a small portion of scripture, completely dismissing portions which may not be to your liking, thereby creating a new belief system. Love is a basic component of almost every religion to some degree, but repentance, and salvation through Jesus Christ is unique to Christianity. A person is of course free to adhere to biblical instruction, or to disregard it in unbelief, but when the scriptures contained in the bible are followed selectively, there is a point at which that person's belief system can no longer be considered Christianity.
The choice to be sexually intimate with a member of the same sex is a choice, for both heterosexuals and homosexuals, however, heterosexuals are anatomically suited for procreation, while homosexuals clearly are not. The bible is filled with acts of sexual intimacy occurring between men and women, but there are no accounts of sexual intimacy, found in the bible, between members of the same sex. Homosexual desires were expressed by the sexually immoral inhabitants of a city called sodom, in the book of Genesis, who attempted to press their way through to have sex with male visitors, (angels), who were in the home of a man named Lot, (Abraham's nephew). The men were blinded by the angels, so that they could not continue, and Lot and his family were subsequently warned that the city of Sodom would be destroyed. Before the destruction, Lot escaped with his two daughters.
This would be one example of a portion of scripture which you might find unsuitable for the tailor made 'Love philosophy' you've developed. I'll have to take your word for it, on the accusation that heterosexuals have broken certain laws more than heterosexuals, assuming you've taken a respectable survey.
There are no physiological differences between heterosexuals and those claiming to be homosexual, and to date, no one has proven anything to the contrary. If by 'innate', you mean, inborn, or somehow interwoven into the natural development, or dna of a person, I reiterate that there is no evidence to support your claim.
Let me give you some examples of abnormal sexual orientation which might clarify an important point. A simple explanation of sexual orientation would be (Wikipedia), emotional, romantic, and sexual attraction. In the case of someone suffering from zoophilia, or bestiality, we would have to conclude that this is their sexual orientation, because they are emotionally, romantically, and sexually attracted to animals.
What psychology has done, (specifically, the cowardly dive taken by the APA in the 1973 declassification) is, eliminate the possibility that homosexuality, and other psycho-sexual disorders, are similar, differing only by the fact that the object of affection, in the cases of homosexuals, happens to be a human being of the same sex, but I propose that regardless of the object of affection, various types of sexual orientation are abnormal, and can represent an interruption in normal sexual development, ie.. (abuse, molestation by predator, gender confusion etc..), and as such, should be given equal place among the various other psycho-sexual disorders.
I don't read nor adhere to the bible so wherever my information comes from is of no importance. The importance is, does being homosexual cause one to not Love? Does it mean they are not capable of Love? We, as humans, tend to look only on the outside of the individual without a second thought to what is on the inside. The inside, the heart, soul, spirit or whatever one calls it is what is important. Do you honestly believe that a homosexual is incapable of Love or are you just reiterating some "scripture" because you were taught to believe it's all true? When the bible states that it must be between man and woman, why does everyone mistake it for the material body? The soul of a person is the true self so whatever costume we wear here on earth is of no importance because that costume will come off and all that will be left is the impression it once was.
When you look in the mirror you see the image of yourself but the emotions, thoughts and actions are still with you. It's the same with the soul and body. The body is the image and the soul is you.
Even if a homosexual doesn't act on that sexualy, he or she is still homosexual because it's the soul that is real.
"In a previous message I have already explained that homosexuality is not the norm, but neither is it unnatural, in the sense that, by reasons of psychology, in any culture and form of society there is a certain number of homosexuals. Homosexuality is the product of the sexual stamp, of sexual fixation, like heterosexuality, the sexual attraction simply goes for the same sex, for one or the other reason. Homosexuals suffer, but they suffer on earth, because of intolerances. But let's have a look at the situation in the spirit world.
We said once that God's laws develop at different levels, there are material laws, spiritual laws, laws that govern Divinity, in fact, there are many more levels, but what I have mentioned is good enough to build a model for your understanding. Sexuality, heterosexuality as well as homosexuality, in their basic physical form, is governed according to material laws. The spiritual part is the one which is governed according to spiritual laws. In other words, the superimposed love is what determines the favorable or unfavorable consequences in the spirit world.And the criteria are the same for homosexuals as for heterosexuals. In principle there is no difference".
I don't read nor adhere to the bible so wherever my information comes from is of no importance. The importance is, does being homosexual cause one to not Love? Does it mean they are not capable of Love? We, as humans, tend to look only on the outside of the individual without a second thought to what is on the inside. The inside, the heart, soul, spirit or whatever one calls it is what is important. Do you honestly believe that a homosexual is incapable of Love or are you just reiterating some "scripture" because you were taught to believe it's all true? When the bible states that it must be between man and woman, why does everyone mistake it for the material body? The soul of a person is the true self so whatever costume we wear here on earth is of no importance because that costume will come off and all that will be left is the impression it once was.
When you look in the mirror you see the image of yourself but the emotions, thoughts and actions are still with you. It's the same with the soul and body. The body is the image and the soul is you.
Even if a homosexual doesn't act on that sexualy, he or she is still homosexual because it's the soul that is real.
"In a previous message I have already explained that homosexuality is not the norm, but neither is it unnatural, in the sense that, by reasons of psychology, in any culture and form of society there is a certain number of homosexuals. Homosexuality is the product of the sexual stamp, of sexual fixation, like heterosexuality, the sexual attraction simply goes for the same sex, for one or the other reason. Homosexuals suffer, but they suffer on earth, because of intolerances. But let's have a look at the situation in the spirit world.
We said once that God's laws develop at different levels, there are material laws, spiritual laws, laws that govern Divinity, in fact, there are many more levels, but what I have mentioned is good enough to build a model for your understanding. Sexuality, heterosexuality as well as homosexuality, in their basic physical form, is governed according to material laws. The spiritual part is the one which is governed according to spiritual laws. In other words, the superimposed love is what determines the favorable or unfavorable consequences in the spirit world.And the criteria are the same for homosexuals as for heterosexuals. In principle there is no difference".
I sincerely don't believe that the ability to express love has ever been an issue. The love that a pedophile has for a child, the love that a stalker has for a victim, and the love that incestuous couples have for each other are all types of love. Without knowing your frame of reference relating to your assertions about the soul, it is difficult to respond, it can only be construed as a belief foreign to Christianity, and we simply disagree on our theology. There are so many personal philosophies developed through personal introspection that I've really lost count. ( note- I wasn't able to open reference HR 24 Sept 2001)
I would suggest avoiding life philosophies which only have value for those who subscribe to those beliefs. If Christianity is mentioned I can easily respond.
Your point regarding the existence of homosexuals in other cultures is somewhat irrelevant. The existence of individuals practicing a particular abnormal sexual behavior, no matter the geographical location, or how great the number, does not add normalcy to the behavior itself. It would be similar to my saying that lesbians live on the island of Lesbos, near the Aegean Sea. It really has no bearing on the discussion.
Now that you know that I am not attempting to define or redefine 'love', which is extremely subjective, and is an extremely over-applied and broadly defined term, and that I have already, repeatedly, been educated on the great sufferings of the homosexual, perhaps you'd care to introduce evidence supporting a position that would explain homosexual behavior and its physiological distinction in scientific or psychological terms. I would think that some champion of your movement would jump at the chance to discuss this with a Christian who is not, as one poster put it "hiding behind the bible".
The meaning of your reference to psychology in your post was a little difficult to understand. Perhaps you meant sociology.
The primary issue here is not that you or others lack the ability to show affection toward the object/person of your affection. I covered that in the post you responded to, explaining the relevance of the developed sexual orientations of zoophiliacs and bestialists.
Except for your unique view of the hereafter and your opinions pertaining to the soul, your points seem to echo previous posts soliciting sympathy for homosexual suffering, and a mixture of personal philosophies born from introspection, in addition to the age old 'right to love' argument, but nothing substantially evidentiary.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 05-22-2011 at 04:41 PM..
I sincerely don't believe that the ability to express love has ever been an issue. The love that a pedophile has for a child, the love that a stalker has for a victim, and the love that incestuous couples have for each other are all types of love. Without knowing your frame of reference relating to your assertions about the soul, it is difficult to respond, it can only be construed as a belief foreign to Christianity, and we simply disagree on our theology. There are so many personal philosophies developed through personal introspection that I've really lost count. ( note- I wasn't able to open reference HR 24 Sept 2001)
I would suggest avoiding life philosophies which only have value for those who subscribe to those beliefs. If Christianity is mentioned I can easily respond.
Your point regarding the existence of homosexuals in other cultures is somewhat irrelevant. The existence of individuals practicing a particular abnormal sexual behavior, no matter the geographical location, or how great the number, does not add normalcy to the behavior itself. It would be similar to my saying that lesbians live on the island of Lesbos, near the Aegean Sea. It really has no bearing on the discussion.
Now that you know that I am not attempting to define or redefine 'love', which is extremely subjective, and is an extremely over-applied and broadly defined term, and that I have already, repeatedly, been educated on the great sufferings of the homosexual, perhaps you'd care to introduce evidence supporting a position that would explain homosexual behavior and its physiological distinction in scientific or psychological terms. I would think that some champion of your movement would jump at the chance to discuss this with a Christian who is not, as one poster put it "hiding behind the bible".
The meaning of your reference to psychology in your post was a little difficult to understand. Perhaps you meant sociology.
The primary issue here is not that you or others lack the ability to show affection toward the object/person of your affection. I covered that in the post you responded to, explaining the relevance of the developed sexual orientations of zoophiliacs and bestialists.
Except for your unique view of the hereafter and your opinions pertaining to the soul, your points seem to echo previous posts soliciting sympathy for homosexual suffering, and a mixture of personal philosophies born from introspection, in addition to the age old 'right to love' argument, but nothing substantially evidentiary.
I guess the point that I was trying to make is that whether or not we are gay or straight has no bearing on the entrance of the Kingdom of God as every person has that capability and the capability is based on Divine Love or natural love. Natural love we are born with and Divine Love is something we must acquire. Most people only develop natural love and not many ask for Divine Love so love is only relative to the persons willingness to become At-one with God or remain the perfect natural man. When a person is on the Divine Love path, homosexuality is not an issue. I have a lot of friends who are homosexuals and they are very loving people towards themselves and others. It doesn't mean that all are the same way so my defense would mainly be on my own experiences.
In my own beliefs and in our church, it has been explained but has not really been a subject that has been elaborated on scientifically, philsophically or otherwise because the church I belong to is only focused on the soul and spirit world and not on the material world. Homosexuality only belongs in the material world. If I do run across someone who has done further research and has talked with our teachers in greater detail on this subject, I will gladly respond but for the time being, it isn't something that is of importance to the soul of man.
Since you couldn't open the link and if you want to read further on information I posted, go to www.new-birth.net and type in the search box at the bottom "homosexuality" and you will have a few messages on the subject. I'm not a fundamental christian so what you will read is not based on the bible although the bible is referenced on the site.
A person is of course free to adhere to biblical instruction, or to disregard it in unbelief, but when the scriptures contained in the
bible are followed selectively, there is a point at which that person's belief system can no longer be considered Christianity.
Unfortunately, when they are followed in their entirety lacking understanding, many cast or hurl stones; a particular piece quarried for effect.
I guess the point that I was trying to make is that whether or not we are gay or straight has no bearing on the entrance of the Kingdom of God as every person has that capability and the capability is based on Divine Love or natural love. Natural love we are born with and Divine Love is something we must acquire. Most people only develop natural love and not many ask for Divine Love so love is only relative to the persons willingness to become At-one with God or remain the perfect natural man. When a person is on the Divine Love path, homosexuality is not an issue. I have a lot of friends who are homosexuals and they are very loving people towards themselves and others. It doesn't mean that all are the same way so my defense would mainly be on my own experiences.
In my own beliefs and in our church, it has been explained but has not really been a subject that has been elaborated on scientifically, philsophically or otherwise because the church I belong to is only focused on the soul and spirit world and not on the material world. Homosexuality only belongs in the material world. If I do run across someone who has done further research and has talked with our teachers in greater detail on this subject, I will gladly respond but for the time being, it isn't something that is of importance to the soul of man.
Since you couldn't open the link and if you want to read further on information I posted, go to www.new-birth.net and type in the search box at the bottom "homosexuality" and you will have a few messages on the subject. I'm not a fundamental christian so what you will read is not based on the bible although the bible is referenced on the site.
Thanks for the response. We're going a little off topic, but I don't mind making a short comment on the reference you've provided. Your religion, if you even call it that, is a combination of religious pluralism and divination.The following is a direct quote and one of the primary reasons a Christian, familiar with scripture, would reject this manner of worship.
Quote from your website
Views on mediumship vary from those who will not accept that any communication with departed mortals is possible, to those who believe all they read. It is as well to understand the mechanism, the sources of potential error, and the right way to discern Truth - which applies to any truth, not just channeled messages
King Saul, the man who preceded King David in the book of I Samuel, was slowly losing his reign. He was about to go into battle against the Philistines and consulted a witch to summon the spirit of the dead prophet Samuel, an act that was strictly forbidden. Eventually Saul committed suicide by falling intentionally onto a sword. David his successor was a man after God's own heart and ruled until giving the kingdom over to his son.As I've made clear, I'm a Christian. These acts, even by misguided homosexuals, are dangerous, and are not without consequences in this life or the next. As I'd said in a previous post, anyone who extracts portions of the bible selectively, and combines it with personal philosophies are creating a new religion.
Contacting the dead, for any reason, has the potential to open your life to more than you may have bargained for. Demons, operate by spiritual laws, and will most certainly take advantage of the opportunities you and your body of worshippers are providing. I can only caution you.But getting back on topic, I believe it's safe to assume that, beyond your 'divine love' philosophy, which conveniently excuses the sexually deviant behavior of homosexuality as being part of this material world, you have nothing evidentiary to contribute explaining homosexuality. Nice sales pitch though, and as with the homosexual deception, which has overtaken our nation,(thanks to the serious lack of courage within the American Psychiatric Assoc.), I am thankful for the opportunity to expose your belief system for what it really is.
Last edited by Pennsylvanian1; 05-22-2011 at 07:05 PM..
Demons, operate by spiritual laws, and will most certainly take advantage of the opportunities you and your body of worshipers are providing.
Let's not forget the doctrines of demons prescribed by the precepts of men, who have taken advantage of others through fear and torment?
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