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And @Christy- yeah, I'm STILL waiting for an answer to that which you're talking about; the issue of the hypocrisy regarding bible "literalists" who pick and choose what to believe out of the bible even though they 'claim' to believe in it from beginning to end, without doubt. Which is a question that I posted twice recently, as well as other numerous times. WAY too many times! I think I'll grow cobwebs before anyone has the guts to answer what is really just a very simple question...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl
Huh?? I don't recall ever being asked that question by you...but there are so many things that God commanded in the OT....none of which are followed....because Christians claim they are no longer under the law. But then....pastors/preachers insist everyone tithe 10% or more to them (because otherwise they are robbing God)....based on the OT....which the actual tithe in the OT wasn't about MONEY at all. And what does the NT say regarding giving??? And whom was the giving supposed to be for??? This is just ONE glaring example of many.
I'm sorry- I wasn't waiting for you to answer anything, Christy! I had asked for the bible literalists to please explain how they believe in the whole bible but not certain parts, which you had said something about in the post I was referencing...anyway sorry for the confusion, I guess I didn't phrase myself correctly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
From the OP...1. Homosexuality is NOT synonymous with being black. 100% false. Homosexuality is about behavior - being black is not.
No, it is exactly like being black, just like Rlarson stated. A person is homosexual whether or not he/she ever even engages in sexual activity. And as well even if he/she engages in sexual activity with a person of the OPPOSITE sex. They are STILL HOMOSEXUAL!
Of course those of you who have no understanding of human sexuality will no doubt NEVER understand or grasp the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice, and it isn't about an action or act, it is about who a person IS.
And by the way, on the whole "black" thing- there was a time in this country- not so long ago- that black people weren't considered "citizens" even though they were born here just like every other American. And they were denied rights to vote, among other things. They didn't "count". Well thank goodness we've got past that sad point in our country, and no doubt there will come a day when children of the future will look back on people like you and laugh at how silly and ignorant you were for making an issue out of the whole "gay" thing and the fact that gays don't have the same rights as heteros- just like we do now about how blacks used to be treated and were refused a good lot of rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
2. Everyone has a certain disposition to a certain sin(s). Some people are easily angered, which may lead to violent behavior. Some people are easily sexually aroused while others are not. Some "type A" people are easily led to power. I would put homosexuality in this category. Everyone is different and has their sin of choice. Everyone sins. Everyone needs a Savior - that is Jesus who has died for the sins of all so that you are able to be reconciled to God through faith in Christ.
Well of COURSE you would "put" homosexuality in that category, because it is still so very obvious that you have a complete lack of understanding about what being homosexual means (or a grasp of ANY human sexuality, for that matter). Not to mention it seems you are not of any spiritually advanced understanding of the fact that "sin" is a myth made up by man- just like religion, and the bible.
But no doubt you'll carry on, and probably ignore me and the rest of us who use logic to back our arguments instead of circular, nonsensical made-up rules that you like to use.
. Homosexuality is NOT synonymous with being black. 100% false. Homosexuality is about behavior - being black is not.
2. Everyone has a certain disposition to a certain sin(s). Some people are easily angered, which may lead to violent behavior. Some people are easily sexually aroused while others are not. Some "type A" people are easily led to power. I would put homosexuality in this category. Everyone is different and has their sin of choice. Everyone sins. Everyone needs a Savior - that is Jesus who has died for the sins of all so that you are able to be reconciled to God through faith in Christ.
1. you're incorrect it's EXACTLY synonomous with being black. homosexuality involves NO choice. It's an INTERIOR TRAIT. I know because I've experienced this trait first hand my whole life. I've never NOT been gay like a black person has NEVER NOT been black.
2. My 'disposition' is the same as YOUR disposition.. It's called a SEXUAL ORIENTATION. Is heterosexuality a disposition comparable to BEING ANGRY or DOING DRUGS?
I am confused from this post. If I am black and a homosexual are your saying that both are synonomous because I can't chose to be black and homosexual? It sounds like to me, that you are saying that race and homosexuality are one in the same. But this is where I think that you are wrong. I can choose to have sex or not, even if I am gay or heterosexual. Sex is a choice, and to a degree I can decide not to allow myself to lust after the same sex or the opposite sex with the help of the holy spirit.
God has made it clear through his word that we must be obedient to his will and not use excuses to justify why we choose to have sex outside of a heterosexual marriage. I have commented on this topic before, and don't mind posting again what the Lord has lead me to type.
Have you thought about this at least. I can't chose my color because I was born black, but I can control or decide who I have sex with, be it same sex or not.
I honestly don't know why people even bother to discuss this issue here. It always comes down to the fundie whackjobs telling everyone that gays are going to hell because they are an abomination before the Lord, while the other side says wait a minute, you got it wrong.
When the whackjobs start condemning to hell women for speaking in church, being teachers, eating shellfish, wearing mixed fiber clothes etc. I will listen to what they say - until then all that they preach is misguided hatred, probably in a way to make themselves feel better at the expense of someone else... oh yeah, so Christian
Anyhow, back to your regular scheduled hatred and condemnation.
I am confused from this post. If I am black and a homosexual are your saying that both are synonomous because I can't chose to be black and homosexual? It sounds like to me, that you are saying that race and homosexuality are one in the same. But this is where I think that you are wrong. I can choose to have sex or not, even if I am gay or heterosexual. Sex is a choice, and to a degree I can decide not to allow myself to lust after the same sex or the opposite sex with the help of the holy spirit.
God has made it clear through his word that we must be obedient to his will and not use excuses to justify why we choose to have sex outside of a heterosexual marriage. I have commented on this topic before, and don't mind posting again what the Lord has lead me to type.
Have you thought about this at least. I can't chose my color because I was born black, but I can control or decide who I have sex with, be it same sex or not.
Yes- you can control who you have sex with. THAT is an action. But your desire for who and whom with- that you can NOT control THAT is who you are, so I'm not sure why you are speaking as if homosexuality and the act of sex are one in the same. They are not. Homosexuality is NOT AN ACTION. Nor is it a choice, or lifestyle. IT IS WHO SOMEONE IS. Someone can be homosexual without EVER having sex. An example:
Let's imagine a guy who was born homosexual (or if you refuse to acknowledge that this is how people are born, then for argument's sake we can say they were born with, or grew up to learn he has an undeniable attraction and strong desire to be close to/intimate with someone of the same sex). But let's say he had the misfortune of being raised by horrible, insensitive parents who constantly shoved religion and hellfire preaching down his throat and taught him that things like homosexuality was very sinful and "wrong". And so no doubt he grew up all screwed up, scared and confused, so let's suppose he never came out of the closet, never admitted he was gay- not to mention because he was afraid of going to hell, he also never engaged in homosexual sex. Is he still a homosexual? YES. He is STILL HOMOSEXUAL! And is certainly no better of for denying himself the life that he was meant to live, not some shallow and empty existence- which is what he will endure if he cannot find intimacy and love with a partner of his choosing.
How about this: a nun doesn't ever engage in sex- some never even have, even before joining their convents. Are they not heterosexuals? Or even lesbians, which I have no doubt that some are? Of course. Just because someone does or doesn't engage in sex, that doesn't change their orientation or who they are. If I'm born left handed but my whole life was forced to write with my right hand- I'm still left handed.
Is the light bulb going on yet?!
Last edited by helios666; 09-27-2010 at 10:19 PM..
Reason: clarity
I am confused from this post. If I am black and a homosexual are your saying that both are synonomous because I can't chose to be black and homosexual? It sounds like to me, that you are saying that race and homosexuality are one in the same. But this is where I think that you are wrong. I can choose to have sex or not, even if I am gay or heterosexual. Sex is a choice, and to a degree I can decide not to allow myself to lust after the same sex or the opposite sex with the help of the holy spirit.
God has made it clear through his word that we must be obedient to his will and not use excuses to justify why we choose to have sex outside of a heterosexual marriage. I have commented on this topic before, and don't mind posting again what the Lord has lead me to type.
Have you thought about this at least. I can't chose my color because I was born black, but I can control or decide who I have sex with, be it same sex or not.
IF you are black and homosexual than you have TWO unchosen MINORITY TRAITS.
Having sex isn't required to be a HOMOSEXUAL, NOR is it required to be a HETEROSEXUAL. there are many types of traits. left handedness is an INTERIOR TRAIT and so is sexual orientation. skin color is an EXTERIOR trait. If you're both black and gay you're a double minority. I'm not gay to 'go against God's word'. I'm gay because the powers that be decided that in my DESIGN>
most christians don't even know what homosexuality IS> homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle it is NOT a choice because it's not an action. homosexuality is an unchosen sexual orientation. The question is aking to asking if black people can be Christians. For some reasons many Christians perceive homosexuality to be a sinful life choice. If you actually TALK to gay people you will discover that those are untrue lies. Gay people know the MOST in this world on what homosexuality MEANS. When somoene says they are gay they are revealing their sexual orientation. They not telling you that they've even ever had sex. When someone tells me that they're straight there is no 'morality' being inferred. They're also not even inferring that they even have ever had sex, they're revealing their sexual orientation. They're revealing an UNCHOSEN sexual orientation... a part of their born core idenity. if you think a sexual orientation is a sin it's akin to thinking a skin color is a sin. Both were equally NOT chosen. Again, this is coming from the first hand source of a gay person
God bless you, my friend and I sincerely hope you will find acceptance among all Christians some day. I belong to a denomination [Lutheran] that recently accepted gay clergy and allow gay marriages. It hasn't been easy and several parishes, pastors and even some bishops are upset and leaving the ELCA. This has been a very sad situation but the Church is serving God and will not exclude any of God's children. To do otherwise would be a sin. You are most welcome in the Lutheran church.
Originally Posted by Rlarson21
I guarantee you becoming born again won't change my sexual orientation. As a teenager I became a a born again Christian and became heavily involved in the church afterwards. I even went on to major in religion in college.
You are a born again Christian, yet you practise willful and habitual sin? You must realize that sin and Christ are incompatible, and any sin is a rebellion against God
Um, AGAIN Your post PROVES MY POINT. you don't know what homosexuality EVEN IS. It's not a 'practice' nor a 'sin slip' It's a part of my born identity. I'm gay TYPING THIS RIGHT NOW. I'm a homosexual twenty four hours a day SINCE BIRTH.
Since this is a Christian discussion forum, we view issues from the Biblical point of view, and in the case of homosexuality, the Bible is crystal clear: it is a sin. It is not a matter of opinion, and there are no loopholes.
You are what you are, but you sin every time you practise homosexual acts. Everyone is created with sin nature, and that is certainly not an excuse to practise sin. If I was still single and trawling the bars for women to have sex with, I would be guilty of sinning too. People are created with sexual desires, but God limits acceptable sex acts to sex between a married man and woman. Everything else is sin.
most christians don't even know what homosexuality IS> homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle it is NOT a choice because it's not an action. homosexuality is an unchosen sexual orientation. The question is aking to asking if black people can be Christians. For some reasons many Christians perceive homosexuality to be a sinful life choice. If you actually TALK to gay people you will discover that those are untrue lies. Gay people know the MOST in this world on what homosexuality MEANS. When somoene says they are gay they are revealing their sexual orientation. They not telling you that they've even ever had sex. When someone tells me that they're straight there is no 'morality' being inferred. They're also not even inferring that they even have ever had sex, they're revealing their sexual orientation. They're revealing an UNCHOSEN sexual orientation... a part of their born core idenity. if you think a sexual orientation is a sin it's akin to thinking a skin color is a sin. Both were equally NOT chosen. Again, this is coming from the first hand source of a gay person
I honestly don't know why people even bother to discuss this issue here. It always comes down to the fundie whackjobs telling everyone that gays are going to hell because they are an abomination before the Lord, while the other side says wait a minute, you got it wrong.
There are more positions among people than just "homosexuality is okay" and "they are a damnable abomination." Life isn't always that binary.
I don't even know that sexually active homosexuals will necessarily go to Hell. I don't know their moral competence or how their life will end up later on. I certainly don't think homosexuals are all going to hell in some inherent way. However the idea it's acceptable I don't think can be justified by tradition or the Bible. The idea it's "basically the same as heterosexuality" is, IMO, almost inherently illogical. That being said I'm not for denying them any right expressly mentioned in the US Constitution.
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