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People can believe whatever they want to - or rather, people do believe whatever they want to. If there is a God - only he knows how he feels about us. Only he can see into our hearts. Only he will be the judge of us. If there is a God - I trust him to judge us. People can judge others all they want to. People can say who God loves and doesn't love. People can say what God thinks and feels. But when it comes down to it - nobody can speak for God but God. I believe that we should all do our best to live our lives in love, kindness, and understanding.
If you are against homosexuality - then don't partake in homosexual acts. It's as simple as that.
Nobody can speak for God, but God speaks to us dicectly thought the Holy Bible. So, yes, you do know exactly how feels about gay sex. It is not a mystery, and like with any other sin, there are no hiding places, and no loop-holes.
Nobody can speak for God, but God speaks to us dicectly thought the Holy Bible. So, yes, you do know exactly how feels about gay sex. It is not a mystery, and like with any other sin, there are no hiding places, and no loop-holes.
I'm sorry but I don't recognize your authority on this matter. The bible appears to be interpreted differently by almost every single person. There is a hell, there isn't a hell, this is a sin, this isn't a sin, God loves us, God hates us. Personally, I don't believe in the Christian God and I don't believe in the Bible - but even if I did - I would put my faith in God and not man. You can believe whatever you want to - that is your right. But why do you try to dictate the way others live their lives and what others believe? If I don't like a TV show - I don't watch it. I don't try to ban it so that nobody can watch it.
No, it is exactly like being black, just like Rlarson stated. A person is homosexual whether or not he/she ever even engages in sexual activity. And as well even if he/she engages in sexual activity with a person of the OPPOSITE sex. They are STILL HOMOSEXUAL!
Of course those of you who have no understanding of human sexuality will no doubt NEVER understand or grasp the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice, and it isn't about an action or act, it is about who a person IS.
And by the way, on the whole "black" thing- there was a time in this country- not so long ago- that black people weren't considered "citizens" even though they were born here just like every other American. And they were denied rights to vote, among other things. They didn't "count". Well thank goodness we've got past that sad point in our country, and no doubt there will come a day when children of the future will look back on people like you and laugh at how silly and ignorant you were for making an issue out of the whole "gay" thing and the fact that gays don't have the same rights as heteros- just like we do now about how blacks used to be treated and were refused a good lot of rights.
I understand it's easier to bridge homosexuality into a race issue to keep people from speaking out against it. Nobody wants to be called a racist - and people such as yourself want to put homosexuality in that category, where it would be widely denounced to speak harshly against homosexuality by linking it to a racism issue.
Homosexuality is a choice based on a sexual act - not rooted in God's design for human beings. Heterosexuality is a choice based on a sexual act. People have changed in their orientation in both directions. That is a fact.
Being black is about pigment color. Can't change it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helios666
Well of COURSE you would "put" homosexuality in that category, because it is still so very obvious that you have a complete lack of understanding about what being homosexual means (or a grasp of ANY human sexuality, for that matter). Not to mention it seems you are not of any spiritually advanced understanding of the fact that "sin" is a myth made up by man- just like religion, and the bible.
But no doubt you'll carry on, and probably ignore me and the rest of us who use logic to back our arguments instead of circular, nonsensical made-up rules that you like to use.
You may say I don't understand homosexuality - OK that's your opinion. But I do understand being black - and it is not synonymous with being homosexual. Homosexual sexual acts are considered as sin. I don't need some special spiritual understanding this fact. I simply need to read the Bible and trust God in what was written.
I'm sorry but I don't recognize your authority on this matter. The bible appears to be interpreted differently by almost every single person. There is a hell, there isn't a hell, this is a sin, this isn't a sin, God loves us, God hates us. Personally, I don't believe in the Christian God and I don't believe in the Bible - but even if I did - I would put my faith in God and not man. You can believe whatever you want to - that is your right. But why do you try to dictate the way others live their lives and what others believe? If I don't like a TV show - I don't watch it. I don't try to ban it so that nobody can watch it.
It's not because the error lies within the Bible, it's because people don't recognize the authority of the Bible. People were no different in the OT.
All false religions begin on the basis that God's Word (the Bible today) was incomplete\had errors. That mentality can be traced all the way back to Adam & Eve.
The Bible by definition however cannot be the word of God. Hebrew and ancient Greek are by definition untranslateable into English without a measure of interpretation as some of the concepts in both are completely foreign to English westernized thought processes and language. As a result, at the very least, the Bible has been interpreted based on trying to get as close as possible to the language that originally divinely inspired it. As a result, debate regarding the meaning has nothing to do with people failing to accept its authority, but rather because it is inherently open to interpretation. How many translations and versions exist? literally hundreds.
As a result to trust the interpretation of the interpretation of God's word and then use that as a code to condemn people's lifestyles based on seeming ignorance is somewhat ridiculous.
Go learn ancient Greek and Hebrew and pick up the historical documents and come to your own conclusions. Only then, even by Christianity's own doctrine would you actually be reading the 'word of God'.
I'm sorry but I don't recognize your authority on this matter. The bible appears to be interpreted differently by almost every single person. There is a hell, there isn't a hell, this is a sin, this isn't a sin, God loves us, God hates us. Personally, I don't believe in the Christian God and I don't believe in the Bible - but even if I did - I would put my faith in God and not man. You can believe whatever you want to - that is your right. But why do you try to dictate the way others live their lives and what others believe? If I don't like a TV show - I don't watch it. I don't try to ban it so that nobody can watch it.
This is a Christian discussion forum so we view issues from the Biblical view point. I am not trying to dictate or ban anything, I am only trying to answer th question; what does Bible say about gay sex. I think the question has been answered by many posters here.
PS I have never heard of Bible interpreption where there is no sin, or where God does not love people, or where gay sex is not considered a sin.
You say you don't watch TV shows you don't like, and clearely you don't like what the Bible says about gay sex, so what brings you here?
This is a Christian discussion forum so we view issues from the Biblical view point. I am not trying to dictate or ban anything, I am only trying to answer th question; what does Bible say about gay sex. I think the question has been answered by many posters here.
PS I have never heard of Bible interpreption where there is no sin, or where God does not love people, or where gay sex is not considered a sin.
You say you don't watch TV shows you don't like, and clearely you don't like what the Bible says about gay sex, so what brings you here?
You do of course realize that there are translations of the bible that don't condemn homosexuality at all? Per my point, the very act of translating from Hebrew and Ancient Greek requires an approximation to be used to catch some key concepts in modern English, which is woefully underequipped in its translative capabilities. As a result, what you're really saying is he doesn't like your dispensationalist reading of ancient Hebrew/Greek and its consequences, not that he doesn't like the Bible.
There are hundreds of competing translations of the Bible, and there is little academic or theological certainty with regards the exact meaning in conceptual terms of certain key words in Ancient Greek in the new testament and how they would have been contextually understood at the time. As a result, the book itself is interpreted through translation to suit various denominations.
Just because someone doesn't believe the preferred KJV dispensationalist version of the Bible, doesn't mean that they dislike the Bible on the whole. As I said, the historical Biblical documents are available in original Hebrew and Ancient Greek, much closer to the source than the modern 'Bible'. I might respectfully suggest that if one wanted to read the true word, they might want to actually learn some Hebrew and some Ancient Greek and tackle the text as it was written in context rather than relying on a modern interpretive translation from incompatable languages into modern English.
After all, judgement is the domain of God, not man, and judging another on the basis of a potentially dangerous game with your soul at stake, don't you think? There is a miriad of academic study around homsexuality in the bible, and while the original Greek text is clear in what it says in Greek, the numerous translations into English, are far from clear, and difficult to discount whichever side of the fense one sits on this issue.
Last edited by Spank316; 09-28-2010 at 02:57 PM..
Reason: for clarity.
This is a Christian discussion forum so we view issues from the Biblical view point. I am not trying to dictate or ban anything, I am only trying to answer th question; what does Bible say about gay sex. I think the question has been answered by many posters here.
PS I have never heard of Bible interpreption where there is no sin, or where God does not love people, or where gay sex is not considered a sin.
You say you don't watch TV shows you don't like, and clearely you don't like what the Bible says about gay sex, so what brings you here?
You can claim ignorance on all the debates about the Bible interpretation but I have seen you on this site for too long to believe that for one second. There is a thread about how God is sorry he made us and that he hates sinners. There are people that do not believe that the Bible says gay sex is a sin.
I am here because I like to try to understand where people are coming from. There is a lot about Christians that I do not understand and I wish to educate myself on the Christian mindset. Also, I have made many friends on this forum and thoroughly enjoy my discussions with them. I am on this thread because if there is one issue that I am truly passionate about it is equality and fair treatment for all human beings. Nothing hurts my heart more than to see the hatred and prejudice towards a group of people. I do not believe that, if there is a God, that he would approve of such behavior toward our fellow man.
I understand it's easier to bridge homosexuality into a race issue to keep people from speaking out against it. Nobody wants to be called a racist - and people such as yourself want to put homosexuality in that category, where it would be widely denounced to speak harshly against homosexuality by linking it to a racism issue.
Homosexuality is a choice based on a sexual act - not rooted in God's design for human beings. Heterosexuality is a choice based on a sexual act. People have changed in their orientation in both directions. That is a fact.
Being black is about pigment color. Can't change it.
You may say I don't understand homosexuality - OK that's your opinion. But I do understand being black - and it is not synonymous with being homosexual. Homosexual sexual acts are considered as sin. I don't need some special spiritual understanding this fact. I simply need to read the Bible and trust God in what was written.
You don't understand homosexuality because you refuse to listen to the source on it.. which is GAY PEOPLE, not straight religious people. Being black is about pigment color and being gay is a about an unchosen sexual orientation due to androgens that affect the brain of the fetus IN THE WOMB. Both NOT CHOICES. BOTH MINORITIES> The reason it's equated with being black is because the experiences of having disliked UNCHOSEN traits makes blacks and gays BOTH MINORITIES.
You do of course realize that there are translations of the bible that don't condemn homosexuality at all? Per my point, the very act of translating from Hebrew and Ancient Greek requires an approximation to be used to catch some key concepts in modern English, which is woefully underequipped in its translative capabilities. As a result, what you're really saying is he doesn't like your dispensationalist reading of ancient Hebrew/Greek and its consequences, not that he doesn't like the Bible.
The Greek word they use is arsenokoitēs which means "one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite". There is no way to misunderstand the meaning.
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