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Being gay i KNOW that my sexual orientation wasn't a choice, I would've rather had cancer than been gay. I was always a very religious kid. My main goal in life was always to fit in and blend in with the crowd. The LAST thing I would want would to be different. Recently it dawned on me that the reason many Christians REFUSE to accept the FACT that a sexual orientation is NOT a choice is because this would mean that THEIR understanding of the LITERAL interpretation of the bible (albeit not accurately interpreted because of cultural context misunderstandings and mistranslations) IS INCORRECT. This would make them question THEIR WHOLE WORLDVIEW. If the Bible can be wrong about ONE thing maybe other things are incorrect too..
The problem is SO MANY people KNOW gay people and know their truths and their lives. THERE WOULD BE no struggle if it was CHOICE. Homosexuality being a CHOICE would END homosexuality. Gay teenagers who have a CHOICE don't commit suicide over their sexual orientation. THEY JUST CHANGE THEIR ORIENTATION. Common sense and first hand proof via ASKING GAY PEOPLE proves that being gay is NOT a choice. Unfortunately this DOES prove that FUNDAMENTALISTS version of the Bible has been proven to be INCORRECT. So what this really is all about is THEM and their SELFISHNESS. They'd rather keep things IN THEIR MINDS the way they want them to be FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT and HARM gay people rather than embrace the possibility that they could be INCORRECT. It's an EGO thing. Thoughts?
I just posted to another one of your threads regarding this issue, and it's no secret that I am TOTALLY in agreement with you, and very much of an advocate for freedom of human beings to do as he/she are here to do- which is live their lives to their fullest potential WITHOUT interference from anyone. Especially from those who have NO understanding extending beyond the parameters of what can best be described as a very small, and limited scope of visibility and sensibility.
With regard to your talk about how some people are "literalists" when it comes to the bible- aye, good luck! Such people claim to adhere fully to the bible and all of it's ridiculous, bass-ackwards content; but I've come to learn that they adhere ONLY to that which propels the agendas that they CHOOSE. They obviously ignore the "ridiculous" parts, assumably parts of Exodus and other areas of the OT that go off about slavery and child sacrifice and so forth. Yet, they still back other parts- parts that they pick and choose...I don't get it. If the book is the word, then that's its' the WORD. Go with it FULLY or not at all.
So yeah, I'm with you- it may be an "ego" thing or, more likely, simply a means to where people who aren't very comfortable with thinking on their own or maybe aren't comfortable with themselves need something external to "tell" them what to do, how to think, etc.. Anyone who THINKS the least bit can see pretty clearly the hypocrisy and idiocy that is teeming amongst religion and the zealots who follow it to the T. Sadly, the 'followers' are the last to see this, because they just aren't "seeing" anything- they're blind as a bat and being led like cows to their own slaughter.
So let's hear it people, please- DO explain how you can back up/believe whatever biblical references in the bible you feel exist with regard to homosexuality being a "sin". And if/when you do, please also cite your reasons for NOT believing other passages in the bible that encourage things like the stoning of someone who dares work on the sabbath. Or, if you don't like that one, perhaps a bigger challenge might be to explain your feelings on the topic of child sacrifice being encouraged in the OT/Exodus...Any takers?!
It is one reason why so many Christians vehemently reject the idea because of the conclusions that would be drawn. It is just inconceivable in their minds that their god would create a creature with an orientation he [SUPPOSEDLY] detests thus begins the circular argument.
Being gay i KNOW that my sexual orientation wasn't a choice, I would've rather had cancer than been gay. I was always a very religious kid. My main goal in life was always to fit in and blend in with the crowd. The LAST thing I would want would to be different. Recently it dawned on me that the reason many Christians REFUSE to accept the FACT that a sexual orientation is NOT a choice is because this would mean that THEIR understanding of the LITERAL interpretation of the bible (albeit not accurately interpreted because of cultural context misunderstandings and mistranslations) IS INCORRECT. This would make them question THEIR WHOLE WORLDVIEW. If the Bible can be wrong about ONE thing maybe other things are incorrect too..
The problem is SO MANY people KNOW gay people and know their truths and their lives. THERE WOULD BE no struggle if it was CHOICE. Homosexuality being a CHOICE would END homosexuality. Gay teenagers who have a CHOICE don't commit suicide over their sexual orientation. THEY JUST CHANGE THEIR ORIENTATION. Common sense and first hand proof via ASKING GAY PEOPLE proves that being gay is NOT a choice. Unfortunately this DOES prove that FUNDAMENTALISTS version of the Bible has been proven to be INCORRECT. So what this really is all about is THEM and their SELFISHNESS. They'd rather keep things IN THEIR MINDS the way they want them to be FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT and HARM gay people rather than embrace the possibility that they could be INCORRECT. It's an EGO thing. Thoughts?
Homosexuality is a sin as is clearly shown in the Bible. The normal soul function of a person can be twisted, distorted from that which is normal by the way a person reacts to circumstances in life - by a persons thought patterns. The old sin nature has trends. In some people the trend is toward asceticism. In others the trend is toward lasciviousness which means '1. Given to or expressing lust; lecherous. 2. Exciting sexual desires; salacious.' Since God designed marriage and sex to be between a man and a woman, Satan, who opposes God in every way, promotes homosexuality. This is the devils world with all of its many influences. And when a person rejects God's truth, God will turn a person over to their own desires that they may do that which is unnatural and an abominination.
Homosexuality, beastiality, Pedifilia, necrophilia are all unnatural practices and are sins.
Homosexuality is but one way in which a soul may be twisted, and a person who is caught up in it is entirely responsible for it.
A man may have a desire to have sex with a woman outside of marriage, but it doesn't mean that he gives in to the desire.
But in large part, homosexuals have become a very militant group who demand to be allowed to indulge themselves in their unnatural practices. Indeed, many of them flaunt their sin. Gay parades? Abomination!!!
God judges nations, and public and governmental acceptance and promotion of homosexuality brings divine judgment on a nation.
Romans 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22] Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23] and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24] Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25] For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26] For this reason God gave them over to degrading pasions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27] and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire for one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Homosexuality is one way in which the sin nature may influence a person who has turned away from God and become involved in Satan's cosmic system.
Leviticus 18:20 'And you shall not have intercourse with your neighbors wife, to be difiled with her. 21] Neither shall you give any of our offspring to offer them to Molech (child sacrifice), nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD. 22] You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination, 23] Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.24] Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25] 'For the land has become defiled, therefore I have visited its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.
Homosexuality, and other things as mentioned above, brings about national judgment.
Like many homosexuals, you attempt to refute what the word of God says by inferring 'cultural context misunderstandings and mistranslations'. No, there are no mistranslations involved, or cultural context misunderstandings. These are feeble excuses given by those who want to be condoned for their unnatural desires and practices.
Being gay i KNOW that my sexual orientation wasn't a choice, I would've rather had cancer than been gay. I was always a very religious kid. My main goal in life was always to fit in and blend in with the crowd. The LAST thing I would want would to be different. Recently it dawned on me that the reason many Christians REFUSE to accept the FACT that a sexual orientation is NOT a choice is because this would mean that THEIR understanding of the LITERAL interpretation of the bible (albeit not accurately interpreted because of cultural context misunderstandings and mistranslations) IS INCORRECT. This would make them question THEIR WHOLE WORLDVIEW. If the Bible can be wrong about ONE thing maybe other things are incorrect too..
Religion shuts down the mind. Intelligent people are not sheep, and religion is directed at sheep, just follow along, blindly.
You have let superstitious ruin your happiness, as it does for many, and that is why religion is so vile. You striive to "fit in"? Why? That is the role of sheep. Why would anyone worry about what others think about them. I see people all the time that ruin their lives, in many ways, to "please total strangers" Really.......
I'm not gay, and while I don't go out of my way to stand out from the crowd, I do take pride in the fact that I do. I care a great deal about how family and loved ones see me, but strangers.............. blah.......... not at all.
I also have a number of good friends, but they have become friends because of who I am, not because I went through the charade of 'fitting in', and perhaps most of them ain't striving to 'fit in' either.
Striving to "fit in" is such a disservice to ones self, and accomplishes what................. How total strangers think about you
Go with your reality and be happy........... life's too short to do otherwise, and like you said if the bible is wrong on this.............
Homosexuality is a sin as is clearly shown in the Bible. The normal soul function of a person can be twisted, distorted from that which is normal by the way a person reacts to circumstances in life - by a persons thought patterns. The old sin nature has trends. In some people the trend is toward asceticism. In others the trend is toward lasciviousness which means '1. Given to or expressing lust; lecherous. 2. Exciting sexual desires; salacious.' Since God designed marriage and sex to be between a man and a woman, Satan, who opposes God in every way, promotes homosexuality. This is the devils world with all of its many influences. And when a person rejects God's truth, God will turn a person over to their own desires that they may do that which is unnatural and an abominination.
Homosexuality, beastiality, Pedifilia, necrophilia are all unnatural practices and are sins.
Homosexuality is but one way in which a soul may be twisted, and a person who is caught up in it is entirely responsible for it.
A man may have a desire to have sex with a woman outside of marriage, but it doesn't mean that he gives in to the desire.
But in large part, homosexuals have become a very militant group who demand to be allowed to indulge themselves in their unnatural practices. Indeed, many of them flaunt their sin. Gay parades? Abomination!!!
God judges nations, and public and governmental acceptance and promotion of homosexuality brings divine judgment on a nation.
Romans 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22] Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23] and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24] Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25] For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26] For this reason God gave them over to degrading pasions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27] and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire for one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Homosexuality is one way in which the sin nature may influence a person who has turned away from God and become involved in Satan's cosmic system.
Leviticus 18:20 'And you shall not have intercourse with your neighbors wife, to be difiled with her. 21] Neither shall you give any of our offspring to offer them to Molech (child sacrifice), nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD. 22] You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination, 23] Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.24] Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25] 'For the land has become defiled, therefore I have visited its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.
Homosexuality, and other things as mentioned above, brings about national judgment.
Like many homosexuals, you attempt to refute what the word of God says by inferring 'cultural context misunderstandings and mistranslations'. No, there are no mistranslations involved, or cultural context misunderstandings. These are feeble excuses given by those who want to be condoned for their unnatural desires and practices.
If you live by the law you better be preaching it all. Not just the top 10 plus homosexuality and a couple others, all 613.
Jesus took all of that away, we no longer have a checklist, our fruit of the spirit is love not a list.
Being gay i KNOW that my sexual orientation wasn't a choice, I would've rather had cancer than been gay. I was always a very religious kid. My main goal in life was always to fit in and blend in with the crowd. The LAST thing I would want would to be different.
When you really come to Christ, you're not going to fit in with this world; you will be persecuted for righteousness sake.
Matthew 5
[10] Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[11] Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
[12] Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rlarson21
Recently it dawned on me that the reason many Christians REFUSE to accept the FACT that a sexual orientation is NOT a choice is because this would mean that THEIR understanding of the LITERAL interpretation of the bible (albeit not accurately interpreted because of cultural context misunderstandings and mistranslations) IS INCORRECT. This would make them question THEIR WHOLE WORLDVIEW. If the Bible can be wrong about ONE thing maybe other things are incorrect too..
The problem is SO MANY people KNOW gay people and know their truths and their lives. THERE WOULD BE no struggle if it was CHOICE. Homosexuality being a CHOICE would END homosexuality. Gay teenagers who have a CHOICE don't commit suicide over their sexual orientation. THEY JUST CHANGE THEIR ORIENTATION. Common sense and first hand proof via ASKING GAY PEOPLE proves that being gay is NOT a choice. Unfortunately this DOES prove that FUNDAMENTALISTS version of the Bible has been proven to be INCORRECT. So what this really is all about is THEM and their SELFISHNESS. They'd rather keep things IN THEIR MINDS the way they want them to be FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT and HARM gay people rather than embrace the possibility that they could be INCORRECT. It's an EGO thing. Thoughts?
I have no doubt that some gays are truly born with a desire for the same sex. However, it is a choice to act upon those desires, just as it is a choice for a man to act upon his desire to have sex with his neighbor's wife. Or, a woman to rob the local bank because of her desire to go on a shopping spree.
Self has to be crucified, and the lusts thereof.
Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
I have no doubt that some gays are truly born with a desire for the same sex. However, it is a choice to act upon those desires, just as it is a choice for a man to act upon his desire to have sex with his neighbor's wife. Or, a woman to rob the local bank because of her desire to go on a shopping spree.
Self has to be crucified, and the lusts thereof.
Galatians 5
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Lust is often mistranslated BTW.
Didn't Jesus say that if you are sinning in your heart is is just as bad as acting on it?
Maybe that is why we should not focus on sin but on the gift Jesus gave us when he died on the cross for us.
I'm not really sure you're wanting thoughts. It seems more like you're making an assertion and wanting agreement or support. So that part might be a tad disingenuous.
Otherwise yes I think people can be naturally homosexual and it not be a choice. Maybe that's how it is with most homosexuals. I think Fundamentalists who think the orientation itself is a choice are incorrect.
However Christianity isn't really about going with your natural urges come what may. The average heterosexual in America, I think I read, has 5 to 8 sexual partners in a lifetime. Considering the average American hetero is not married anywhere near five times they are presumably partaking of sex that goes against Christian teaching. The average American Christian, in specific, buys at least some porn in their life.
Christianity could say "well as most do it go with it, whatever" but that is not what Christianity is about as far as I know. It's more about a willingness to abandon your own base desires for a greater goal of service to neighbor, the least among us, and God. It's not supposed to be an easy path of following your psychosexual or consumer or what have you desires.
However Christianity isn't really about going with your natural urges come what may. The average heterosexual in America, I think I read, has 5 to 8 sexual partners in a lifetime. Considering the average American hetero is not married anywhere near five times they are presumably partaking of sex that goes against Christian teaching. The average American Christian, in specific, buys at least some porn in their life.
Christianity could say "well as most do it go with it, whatever" but that is not what Christianity is about as far as I know. It's more about a willingness to abandon your own base desires for a greater goal of service to neighbor, the least among us, and God. It's not supposed to be an easy path of following your psychosexual or consumer or what have you desires.
Personally, I can see the detrimental effects of non-monagamous hetero/homo relationships as well as of pornography. It makes sense to me that it is benficial to abstain from those things. But what do you see as the downside to a monogamous homosexual relationship? How is it harmful to the people involved? Why would it make sense to abstain from that if one is, by nature, homosexual?
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