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All of that aside, it is rational to assume that Jesus was a man of his times, and you can't suck his teachings out of the historical context they were taught in and view them through a comparatively modern lens. Sadly in his day, slavery was commonplace and as an allagory it was a very apt piece of imagery for him to be using.
Of course it's a whole other matter entirely whether you can buy the concept that a corrupted English translation of ancient Greek (a language that secular and biblical scholars alike can barely get their heads around at the best of times, with may concepts and words having absolutely no modern English equivalent) hasn't damaged the message of the gospels in any way shape or form. Given that it is an academic fact that some words in Ancient Greek have no modern equivalent, in English, and require extensive knowledge of the historical context in which they were written to even begin to understand them (which is sadly lacking due to a very poor historical record of the day) the very act of translation requires interpretation. So people arguing the semantics of the English translation of the Bible as if those words are in any way, fixed, accurate, or totally nailing the original concept amuse me endlessly.
I'm waiting for a 'fundamentalist' Christian that so loves the 'Word of God' to actually show me that they've taken the time to actually study some ancient Greek and learned the Word as it was written, rather than posting somewhat dubious translations from sadly ineducated translators into modern English. KJV being one of the prime examples of some extremely hillarious translative efforts from ancient Greek to English, with some even more comical translations of ancient Hebrew.
So while I can buy that Jesus might have spoken the unbroken Word of God, I find it ridiculous to assume based on the inarguable fact that translation of ancient Hebrew and Greek into modern English requires some interpretive effort on the part of the translator that those words haven't been idiologically twisted to suite particular denominations that ultimately did the translating, and re-translating.
Last edited by Spank316; 09-29-2010 at 10:48 AM..
Reason: for clarity.
Yes, it's as clear as day. Especially in his teachings in Luke, where he instructs beatings of slaves.
Well, then demonstrate it, claims mean nothing, the person who started this thread already has done the same thing as you. They make a claim through words and contexts that are not even there.
Well, then demonstrate it, claims mean nothing, the person who started this thread already has done the same thing as you. They make a claim through words and contexts that are not even there.
I didn't copy and paste the passages here because they make me feel sick.
Do you need some help with Googling the passages and reading them for yourself?
Not buying that, you made a post bringing up the subject without having the stomach to continue? That is just a lame excuse.
In other words you cannot do it and resort to making it about me when it is your claim and not mine to demonstrate.
My, you do sound like you're getting agitated!
I just don't want to copy and paste that desperately sick slavery-in-the-bible garbage.
Anyway, I'll make it nice and easy for you, it's all explained in detail here.
[fourth down on the left-hand column.]
Last edited by Tantalust; 09-29-2010 at 12:06 PM..
I just don't want to copy and paste that desperately sick slavery-in-the-bible garbage.
Yet, here you are spending your time dwelling on it. Suck it up.
Quote:
Anyway, I'll make it nice and easy for you, it's all explained in detail here.
That site is blocked from where I access the web right now. Is this a site YOU wrote? If it is, I will look at it later, if you just found something using google, then my point remains the same. YOU, can't demonstrate your claim.
Sorry that I'm posting some of the worst, dirtiest parts of the bible here.
"Except for murder, slavery has got to be one of the most immoral things a person can do. Yet slavery is rampant throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments. The Bible clearly approves of slavery in many passages, and it goes so far as to tell how to obtain slaves, how hard you can beat them, and when you can have sex with the female slaves.
Many Jews and Christians will try to ignore the moral problems of slavery by saying that these slaves were actually servants or indentured servants. Many translations of the Bible use the word "servant", "bondservant", or "manservant" instead of "slave" to make the Bible seem less immoral than it really is. While many slaves may have worked as household servants, that doesn't mean that they were not slaves who were bought, sold, and treated worse than livestock.
The following passage shows that slaves are clearly property to be bought and sold like livestock.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
The following passage describes how the Hebrew slaves are to be treated.
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
Notice how they can get a male Hebrew slave to become a permanent slave by keeping his wife and children hostage until he says he wants to become a permanent slave. What kind of family values are these?
The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery. How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
So these are the Bible family values! A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!
What does the Bible say about beating slaves? It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don't die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing.
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)"
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