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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,221,199 times
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I know some will say 'real Christians would,' but I know many here do not consider the Bible totally 'inerrant' (especially the OT). I, for some, am not here to pass any judgements on them based on whether or not they take everything the Lord says as literal.
So yeah, do you take EVERYTHING Jesus says as being truth? I can think of one famous theologian who had doubts about at least SOME of what Jesus said. C.S. Lewis, when struggling to explain why predictions of the second coming might not be true, suggested that Christ's human side was not always right. Does anyone here take C.S. Lewis' view? It seems a minority view among conservative Christians (who prefer other explanations for the problem of the apparent 'unfulfilled prophecy).
Anyway, whatever the reason, if you DO doubt some of what Christ says, which parts? If you wish say why. For instance, do some feel uncomfortable with his threats? Or maybe they were misconstrued by the church? Or maybe when he references things Jewish and cultural? I.e. the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, whether or not that's a parable.
I admit at times I question whether our Lord really DID say that. I mean I don't have trouble with most of what he says, but SOME of what he says can really trouble me. From falling stars (which must mean meteorites, unless Jesus really believed in a geo-centric worldview) to sending angels to throw people into fiery furnaces. It's not just that I feel uncomfortable about the latter (which I do) but it doesn't really strike me as compatible with his merciful nature.
I mean, of course, we are definitely relying on what the writers said in the Gospels (and relying on the Church Fathers who decided to include those four gospels), but that's all we have to go by. I don't doubt there's a lot left unexplained in the Gospels, but I think enough was included for the purposes of the faith.
No. I don't think Jesus was speaking literally about a camel passing through the eye of a needle. That is just one tiny example out of many. But I will not spend time arguing with those who are bent on literal interpretations for everything. My time is too valuable to do that.
No. I don't think Jesus was speaking literally about a camel passing through the eye of a needle. That is just one tiny example out of many. But I will not spend time arguing with those who are bent on literal interpretations for everything. My time is too valuable to do that.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,221,199 times
Reputation: 11862
I'm interested to hear people's opinions of the Lord's warning that the Son of Man sending his angels to throw people in the fiery furnace. Did this affect your view of him as merciful saviour? Or saying how the judgement to come would make Sodom and Gomorrah look like a picnic. Sounds like the God of the OT to me.
I'm interested to hear people's opinions of the Lord's warning that the Son of Man sending his angels to throw people in the fiery furnace. Did this affect your view of him as merciful saviour? Or saying how the judgement to come would make Sodom and Gomorrah look like a picnic. Sounds like the God of the OT to me.
I believe in judgement. But I don't believe in eternal torment. There may be a place pf outer darkness where rebellious, unloving people who lie, cheat, etc... have to stay for a time after death until God grants them repentance. I think a lot of professing Christians may find themselves there for being dishonest with God and themselves. I don't think a person can repent and believe without God's influence and I think he is sovereign over the order in which people are saved from the kingdom of darkness. I believe there is a kingdom of darkness and Kingdom of Light. But I do not believe in a literal lake of literal fire. It's spiritual. And painful.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,221,199 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong
I believe in judgement. But I don't believe in eternal torment. There may be a place pf outer darkness where rebellious, unloving people who lie, cheat, etc... have to stay for a time after death until God grants them repentance. I think a lot of professing Christians may find themselves there for being dishonest with God and themselves. I don't think a person can repent and believe without God's influence and I think he is sovereign over the order in which people are saved from the kingdom of darkness. I believe there is a kingdom of darkness and Kingdom of Light. But I do not believe in a literal lake of literal fire. It's spiritual. And painful.
Yes...I suppose that passage in Matthew just struck me. I really don't want to see it that way, but it kind of reminds me of like the Gestapo or something, snatching you when you least expect it and throwing you into a gulag. I suppose we have to trust the Lord's higher purpose, that he really isn't a brutal dictator.
Yes...I suppose that passage in Matthew just struck me. I really don't want to see it that way, but it kind of reminds me of like the Gestapo or something, snatching you when you least expect it and throwing you into a gulag. I suppose we have to trust the Lord's higher purpose, that he really isn't a brutal dictator.
I think that is why the NT constantly urges us to judge ourselves, not others. Our judgement of others does not matter because we cannot see as God sees. So we should be mostly concerned with making sure our hearts are pure. But I don't find a lot of that attitude at least on this forum. Instead I often see/hear people justifying themselves with a story about when they prayed the sinner's prayer and and then preaching condemnation to others. We're not called to preach condemnation. That is the opposite of the gospel of peace. When the NT says if you hold sins against others that Father-God will not forgive you, I think we should believe that. It's very straight forward -- no allegory there, no parable.
Actually not. God can't make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it. God can't make a square circle. (But I can! )
CH
I can think of another thing God cannot do: He cannot lie!
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