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Thanks for the reply, but it doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying.
it has everything to do with what you are saying--its a complete contradiction,onr is saying God who in essence is love,is mercifull ,the other is saying that he is incapable of showing mercy to all his creation,which one you want to beleive is up to you,either he has unlimited amounts of mercy,or He dosent,we know thye awnser through logic and reason,God can be understood through logic,a rose under any other name will still smell like a rose,God dosent change,He expands,and his love is forever expanding,dosent matter what people beleive they know,ask what they actually know!!!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely,much of what i have believed and also been taught in the past i believed to be the truth only later to discover it's not. Any man who believes he has the truth and worse still has all of it, is a man most deceived and open to nothing.
tottally agree with you,and its probly some humble fool living on tha streets who is closer to God than many who claim to be His representitives????????????,ya never know,the point is is that God is attainable,and he is immpartial to everyone because he is freinds with everyone and our actions and thoughts will speak for themselves,God's no fool either He knows whats in the hearts of every living entity!!!!!
getting back to wat you said-i wonder how many people come to the conclusion that what they beleived isnt all its craiced up to be,but because they were so sure before they refuse to beleive themselves,even though there hearts are saying the opposite????
i consider meself lucky for getting out of that way of thinking,not everyone it seems are so lucky,the rest of my family for instance,there all christians that beleive in ET.
Yes, the Holy Sprit has helped me find the truth. Praise the Lord.
It is easier if you open your heart and listen and stop trying to insert 'logic' and human sense of justice into every verse.
I totally opened my heart when I asked God why He had to burn everyone who didn't believe in Jesus. I didn't ask Him IF it were true because I had zero doubts about that. I asked Him WHY there could not have been another way. The Holy Spirit began to whisper in my heart and tell me I was asking the wrong question. It wasn't WHY He was going to burn these people, but IF He would do that.
I felt very uncomfortable with those thoughts and tried to dismiss them because I felt like I was doubting my faith. After the thoughts persisted for a few weeks, I tried to reinforce my belief by thinking of verses that say, basically, "If you do not believe in Jesus, God will burn you in hell forever." I couldn't think of any verses that really said what I had been taught.
It was really bothering me and I wanted to get these thoughts out of my head once and for all, so i went to the internet and typed something like, "Bible verses that prove the existence of hell." That's where the research came in, and that's when I found out I should have been listening to my heart all along. NO verses really say what we've been taught. It's only man's interpretations of parables, prophecies, and symbolism, along with a misunderstanding of the character of God. I realized I had not been doubting my faith in God, but my faith in religion.
So, I listened to my heart and stopped trying to insert "Christian logic" and "Christian sense of justice" into every verse.
I totally opened my heart when I asked God why He had to burn everyone who didn't believe in Jesus. I didn't ask Him IF it were true because I had zero doubts about that. I asked Him WHY there could not have been another way. The Holy Spirit began to whisper in my heart and tell me I was asking the wrong question. It wasn't WHY He was going to burn these people, but IF He would do that.
I felt very uncomfortable with those thoughts and tried to dismiss them because I felt like I was doubting my faith. After the thoughts persisted for a few weeks, I tried to reinforce my belief by thinking of verses that say, basically, "If you do not believe in Jesus, God will burn you in hell forever." I couldn't think of any verses that really said what I had been taught.
It was really bothering me and I wanted to get these thoughts out of my head once and for all, so i went to the internet and typed something like, "Bible verses that prove the existence of hell." That's where the research came in, and that's when I found out I should have been listening to my heart all along. NO verses really say what we've been taught. It's only man's interpretations of parables, prophecies, and symbolism, along with a misunderstanding of the character of God. I realized I had not been doubting my faith in God, but my faith in religion.
So, I listened to my heart and stopped trying to insert "Christian logic" and "Christian sense of justice" into every verse.
It was really bothering me and I wanted to get these thoughts out of my head once and for all, so i went to the internet and typed something like, "Bible verses that prove the existence of hell." That's where the research came in, and that's when I found out I should have been listening to my heart all along. NO verses really say what we've been taught.
It is painfully obvious you did not look very hard:
The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).
Finn,
I conceive that the torment you are referring to is with regards to man's selfish condition in which he has been wrapped up, and from which he cannot be freed until the Spirit sets him free.
Man's condition, which he becomes painfully aware when the Lord confronts him, and puts the question to him, "oh man, for whom hast thou been living?" and man will answer, "for myself." And the Lord will ask, "why doest thou live to thyself, if I have made thee to live for Me?"
this is the torment, as Saul, who fell to the ground, crying, "Who art thou, LORD?" He had experienced in that moment the wrath of God, and then the mercy: "I am Jesus, whom thou persecutest."
Jesus did not threaten Saul with hell and brimstone, because he had just gone through it!! What Jesus brought was healing and restoration.
That's why Paul said that the Gospel message is the message of Reconciliation!
Yes, the Holy Sprit has helped me find the truth. Praise the Lord.
It is easier if you open your heart and listen and stop trying to insert 'logic' and human sense of justice into every verse.
Finn you said my reply had nothing to do with what you were saying, it had everything to do with it , you mentioned human sense of justice (the ET'ers sense of justice to be precise in my opinion) in your post, which is what i think most who believe in eternal damnation interpret the justice of God as being, because it lacks the mercy of God in great measure , and this is what i was trying to convey in my reply to your post.
Though i do believe the justice system of this world is far more merciful than that of the teaching of eternal damnation, i also have a hard time believing anyone could out do God in Mercy.
i think the first christians to hit america were protestants from england,who wanted to do things there own way,only problem was all the bull they carried with them----eternal torment,you wouldnt do it to yhour worst enemy,not even an animal but yet people think that the nature of an all loving God is torturing people for eternity................i watched a film the other night"the collector"and yer man was a sick puppy,torturing his victims"how can you link what this man was doing in a film to what Jesus is or His Father is goin to do to most of His creation,,,,,i tell you watching that film,that man getting tortured so graphically was sick,and i couldnt wait till he died and was put out of his misery,i know its onl a film but it shows you how torture is sooooooo evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The First Christian in America were Puritans...And maybe the torment and torture that our human minds concieve in a sick manner is not going to be that way but rather anguish at being seperated from God for all eternity...weeping and gnashing of teeth could mean extreme anger, have you ever been so angry that you had tears coming out of your eyes and you grited your teeth?...Sometimes you are angry with yourself that you did something stupid and the consequences caused you great anguish...And you grited your teeth and wept from anger...I remember when i was a teen in junior high and i was a runt and got picked on by bullies and i remember gritting my teeth and weeping, not out of fear or hurt feelings, but out of extreme anger because i was small and they were big and i couldn't do anything about it and that made me angry...And if you are seperated from God for eternity where you cannot feel His presense or love and in fact feel nothing good, would this not effect you in this way?...And as i currently believe that God chooses who He will reveal Himself to and who He will pass over, those that get passed over and remain unregenerated spiritually would naturally have the same reaction...'How could you do this to me?...Why did you choose them and not me?'....While gritting their teeth and weeping in anger because God had passed them over according to His own plan...Our ideas today of torment are not always accurate nor are our ideals of justice today what justice was 2000 or 6000 years ago, the sense of Justise then was very different than it is today...and that was when the Bible was written and we see a reflection of what their sense of Justice was...
tottally agree with you,and its probly some humble fool living on tha streets who is closer to God than many who claim to be His representitives????????????,ya never know,the point is is that God is attainable,and he is immpartial to everyone because he is freinds with everyone and our actions and thoughts will speak for themselves,God's no fool either He knows whats in the hearts of every living entity!!!!!
getting back to wat you said-i wonder how many people come to the conclusion that what they beleived isnt all its craiced up to be,but because they were so sure before they refuse to beleive themselves,even though there hearts are saying the opposite????
i consider meself lucky for getting out of that way of thinking,not everyone it seems are so lucky,the rest of my family for instance,there all christians that beleive in ET.
An Éireanach Thú?...Tugaim faoi deara go n-úsáideann tú an focal 'craic' in ionad 'crack'. Craic ciallaíonn 'party or fun'. Agus is cosúil do Béarla a bheith i struchtúr abairte na hÉireann.
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