From Eternal Torment to Universal Redemption---An Inevitable Evolutionary Process? (Matthew, Calvinist, salvation)
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Are they? What about Paul, before he knew the law....what about what he said, about those who did not know the law?
Early church? Which one? Also, I am not trying to say anything...I am directly quoting the Hebrew text of the holy scriptures, in that they differentiate between the two....in Adam, and in mankind.
What? You are kidding me right? Did he die that very literal day?
The scriptures teach a "spiritual death" for those who know the law, as Adam did.
What is bondage? A physical impedance, or a spiritual one? This goes back to the previous quote above.
Now you are getting it. Praise the Lord! They don't exist.
The law of sin and death hearkens back to the garden....unless you want to disregard every sin from Adam to Moses....and I don't think you want to go there.....or do you?
It is you who are going there ... If the promise that God gave to Adam of a messiah can only apply to those who are in Adam, or of Adam and thus in the covenant which God made with Adam and his descendants, either spiritually or physically, then so also does the command(s) which God gave Adam and to his descendants only apply to Adam and his descendants as well.
Then that would be to say that all those who are not of Adam and thus are not a part of the covenant did not receive either the condemnation of the breaking of the commandment and neither do they need the promise of the hope of messiah to save them from their breaking the commandment.
This is according to the logic you are using in reference to your belief that only those of your supposed covenant are saved by Christ.
Also i notice you say that those who are not a part of the covenant do not exist?
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"Now you are getting it. Praise the Lord! They don't exist."
So the enemies of God and of the Gospel don't even exist? So how can we love our enemies and bless those who abuse us if they don't even really exist to begin with?
Now your really going over board. So those who never believe in Christ before they die never really existed to begin with? But someone who believes before they die who was born from someone who never believed before they died was born from someone who never really existed to begin with?
Hotinaz is actually taking the term and its usage literally, but we see in Romans 11 that Israel was blinded in part to the gospel for the sake of the redemption of the world.
Well, yes, this is a point I try to make, though I don't do it very effectively at times. ET'ers use the argument that man has absolute power of free will to choose his eternal path; that this power is apart from God's desire that they should be saved; and this argument is a justification for his "having made his bed and now he must sleep in it". But clearly God has forged paths for many in the bible that circumvent their own right to free will. In this way, their ability to freely choose which path they wanted to take was clearly thwarted by God's intervention. So which is it? Does man have a complete free will to choose which gate he wants to go through, the broad or the narrow---that is, a choice apart from God's own will? Or does God cherry-pick those whose lives He decides to intervene in and direct toward the narrow gate, thus negating their rights of total and absolute free will apart from God's interference? Of course ET'ers can argue that God is God and He can cherry-pick all He wants and maybe that is true. But there is something decidedly inequitable about this kind of "arrangement". I'm sure Pharaoh, from the depths of hell, is screaming right at this moment, "Hey! I got a bum rap!" But the bible, according to ET'ers indicates that those condemned to eternal torment will freely acknowledge in judgement that they made their beds. Seems to me in many cases they did not get a fair shake.
Well, Saul was not of Christs sheep when he was persecuting the Christians, but he became one of Christs sheep after the road to Damascus indecent.
Actually he was, so nice try. He was God's sheep, which makes him Jesus' sheep as well.
EVEN Christians do bad things, daily. Does this make them NOT God's sheep? I would certainly HOPE not.
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Hotinaz is actually taking the term and its usage literally,
Nice try, again. I am letting scripture interpret scripture, which is what we are called to do. What did Jesus say? Did he say EVERYONE on the face of this planet was His sheep? NO. So what part of this do you not understand?
You all know I do not believe in ET. I believe in conditional immortality. I provided a link, even though I am not saying I totally agree with everything this person has written. Just for clarification.
It is you who are going there ... If the promise that God gave to Adam of a messiah can only apply to those who are in Adam, or of Adam and thus in the covenant which God made with Adam and his descendants, either spiritually or physically, then so also does the command(s) which God gave Adam and to his descendants only apply to Adam and his descendants as well.
Yes. That is Israel of the faith, through Abraham's example....the peculiar people, apart from the world.
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Then that would be to say that all those who are not of Adam and thus are not a part of the covenant did not receive either the condemnation of the breaking of the commandment and neither do they need the promise of the hope of messiah to save them from their breaking the commandment.
Yes. They have no.....resurrection. They have no life. No spirit.
Nothing...they are as.....beasts.
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This is according to the logic you are using in reference to your belief that only those of your supposed covenant are saved by Christ.
What other covenant is there?
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So the enemies of God and of the Gospel don't even exist?
The enemies of the gospel are not heathen Gentiles.
They are Jews. I see in your previous post that you consider them "blinded" Israel, yet you bounce away from that theme and apply it to heathen?
No wonder you are theologically mixed up!
The rest of your post hinges on your interpretation of "enemies."
Maybe a refresher on Romans 11?
No they weren't...they were blinded for the sake of redemption for those who are...who? The wild branches that believed on Christ.
I believe that you are wrong, as it is written that God bound all people over to disobediences, so that he can have mercy on them all.
Your "elite" beliefs are in direct opposition to what i believe about the true value of all people and the love of God for them all. You believe that Just because someone does not believe in the same version of God that you do, then they don't even really exist.
I think that is as close to believing like a Nazi as anyone can get without openly being a Nazi. Only your "less than humans" are anyone who are not Christians instead of the Jews.
So is God the God of all people or only the God of some people? If he is the only true God then he is the God of all people, and he has plan and a purpose for all people, and not just for those who believe the way you do.
I see something completely different when i read the words of Christ than you do. I see the love of God for all people, I see the love of his enemies and the message of unity and mercy and peace and compassion.
I see the power of God to accomplish everything he desires, and to achieve complete and absolute victory within the lives of every part of his creation.
Ironmaw dear brother...you are full of ad hom remarks and rhetoric. When are you going to depart from your sacred misconceptions and take the scriptures as there are?
I did, so have many others, when are you?
You believe that Just because someone does not believe in the same version of God that you do, then they don't even really exist.
What version is that?
The God of Abraham, Christ, God in the flesh, or Vishnu and Allah?
Or maybe Marduk?
I believe that anyone outside of covenant doesn't exist spiritually. They have none. They must be reborn. Then you have a peculiar person.
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From Eternal Torment to Universal Redemption---An Inevitable Evolutionary Process?
