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Allow me to suggest that it appears that very few here have learned what love is. Jesus said that the greatest love is to lay one's life down for another. Now presumably, this applies not just to man, but to God also. That the greatest love God can express is to lay His life down for another. And that my friend is precisely what He did. Jesus laid His life down on behalf of the human race. The ultimate expression of love. Self-sacrifice. There is no greater love than this, proving that God is love. God, because He is love, does nothing except it comes from a heart of love. Everything He does is based on His love. Particularly His plan of salvation. Most especially His plan of salvation.
Now let me ask you a question. If God is determined to exercise His will over mankind regardless of man's thoughts or feelings on the matter,and regardless of whether or not you or I consider it to be beneficial to man, is that self-sacrificial love? Is imposing our will on another, say for example our spouse, regardless of whether or not it is beneficial or not, is that self sacrificial love? The answer is a resounding no. And God is incapable of any other kind of love.
I am sure all the atheists, agnostics, wicca and new age people on this forum would be delighted to hear that regardless of their thoughts and feelings, regardless that right now the very last thing they desire is to be in the company of Christians hearing them singing praises to their Saviour, and regardless the fact that they have no desire to live righteous holy lives according to the commandments of God, you would have them doing those very things for all eternity, despite the fact that they would be hating every minute of it, and in their unrighteousness would not be able to abide the presence of God anyway. That my friend is precisely why they will not be there. Because they don't want to be and would hate it if they were. God, in His love, is merely giving to them what they truly want, and not forcing upon them that which they despise.
That said, God will not allow them to perish without giving them an opportunity to know Him. But ultimately, it is their decision. Self-sacrificial love on the part of God demands that be so.
Self will, which is exactly what universalists and hard core Calvinists promote, is in fact the opposite of love, the opposite of self-sacrifice, and precisely the spirit that God requires that we die from.
History is replete with all manner of gods and goddesses and sundry deities all fighting one another for pre-eminence in the minds and hearts of men. Raping, killing, and threatening one another to maintain power and influence. It was this pagan philosophy of self willed idolatry which Jesus came to denounce and reveal the true nature of the Creator God. Sad that so many Christians characterise God in the same way that pagans have been characterising their gods for millennia. A self-willed tyrant bent on having His own way. That is not love. It is spiritual rape.
I always marvel at the ways people can come so close to understanding and then twist things to completely confuse themselves. God IS Love! But it is the mainstream "tyrant God, vengeful, angry, wrathful creator of ET" that is the pagan one. URs realize that it is Love of God that must motivate our voluntary "believe on" Jesus and follow His commands to "Love God and each other." Fear has no place . . . threat of ET or annihilation has no place in our motivations because they are NOT voluntary . . . they are extortion.
where in the bible does it say that repentance is a gift from god?
Quote:
originally posted by pcamps god exalted him to his own right hand as prince and savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to israel. acts 5:31
Where in the Bible does it say that repentance is a gift from God?
Acts 5:30,31 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross. He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."
Acts 11:17 "If God therefore gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" And when they heard this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
2 Tim. 2:24-26 And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
It never ceases to amaze me that a verse pulled out of thin air seems to be all you uni's need. What about the context of 2 Timothy? What about verse 21 and 22. And in the verse you quoted, this is for the ones who are false teachers, hoping that God open their minds and TURNAWAY from their false teachings,,,which is what repentance means,,and then God CAN lead them into the Truth.
As far as your little quote job goes,,,,nothing to do with our discussion.
We lay claim THROUGH Jesus Christ,,not without. That is where your doctrine falls apart. You say it can happen without any pursuit,,unlike in verse 22 where it tells us to:
Flee also youthful lusts; but pursuerighteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
It never seizes to amaze me, that we refuse to humble ourselves and admit that it's all God.
Lol. Pulled out of thin air,it's right there in your scripture.He pursued you not the other way around. You were dead in trespasses and sin.
No man can come to Jesus Christ, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:John 6:44.
So you deny anything you have even the ability to repent is not God given, when Jesus Christ clearly stated a man can do nothing or receive nothing unless he gives it to you in the first place.
You make everything a Uni issue. I believed this way before i knew of universal reconciliation.
No, I am saying that through faith,,,repentance is WORK! Daily I have to die to self. Die to pride. Die to evil. Die to the desires of this carnality. DAILY I pick up that cross.
Without faith, there is no repentance. There is no forgiveness. There is nothing, but death.
Ok, so let's go with Faith, how do we obtain Faith?
Ok, so let's go with Faith, how do we obtain Faith?
By seeking God with a PURE HEART of love.
Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
It never seizes to amaze me, that we refuse to humble ourselves and admit that it's all God.
Lol. Pulled out of thin air,it's right there in your scripture.He pursued you not the other way around. You were dead in trespasses and sin.
No man can come to Jesus Christ, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:John 6:44.
So you deny anything you have even the ability to repent is not God given, when Jesus Christ clearly stated a man can do nothing or receive nothing unless he gives it to you in the first place.
You make everything a Uni issue. I believed this way before i knew of universal reconciliation.
This gibgab had nothing to do with my teling you about the context of the verse you pulled out.
Yes, God pursued me. And? He calls on those He loves. I would even venture to say that I was called even before I was born, but that is another topic in and of itself.
I know you would state that God loves everyone, because God is love, and since He is love, He will, based upon this description, have no choice but to save everyone. But pcamps,,,everyone is not listening, are they?
They have other gods who rule over their lives, instead of submitting wholly to His Kingship. You really think He is pleased about this? Was He pleased with the Israelites when they served other gods? When they broke His Commandments? When their love was waxed cold so they turned from serving God, to serving the creation? And God is supposed to what?€ Torture them for some length of time, undetermined, in a lake of fire and this will make it all better?
Our God is a consumingn fire. So unless you have been covered in the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, then that fire will annihilate you completely.
There is no coming back. There is no turning away at that point. It will be, what it is. Death. The second death.
This gibgab had nothing to do with my teling you about the context of the verse you pulled out.
Yes, God pursued me. And? He calls on those He loves. I would even venture to say that I was called even before I was born, but that is another topic in and of itself.
I know you would state that God loves everyone, because God is love, and since He is love, He will, based upon this description, have no choice but to save everyone. But pcamps,,,everyone is not listening, are they?
They have other gods who rule over their lives, instead of submitting wholly to His Kingship. You really think He is pleased about this? Was He pleased with the Israelites when they served other gods? When they broke His Commandments? When their love was waxed cold so they turned from serving God, to serving the creation? And God is supposed to what?€ Torture them for some length of time, undetermined, in a lake of fire and this will make it all better?
Our God is a consumingn fire. So unless you have been covered in the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, then that fire will annihilate you completely.
There is no coming back. There is no turning away at that point. It will be, what it is. Death. The second death.
I was with you when you admitted God pursued you, then you lost me right after you said it.
You say the repentance scripture i posted was for the house of Israel, so i posted one in reference to the gentiles too, then you say i'm pulling scripture out of thin air,how many times do you want the goal posts moved ?.
You need to keep ever before your eyes that God demonstrated his lovetowards us while we were yet sinners, this will help you to not to dwell on others serving foreign gods, breaking the commandments of God and all the other stuff you are setting your eyes upon.You too are commandment breaker if you want to bring those commandment breakers under the law to be judged, that you do not keep.
You have also not submitted to his kingship, unless you are not loving your neighbor as yourself.
God is a consuming fire true, and what is being burnt up is that which comes between the union between God and man, not man himself.
I was with you when you admitted God pursued you, then you lost me right after you said it.
You say the repentance scripture i posted was for the house of Israel, so i posted one in reference to the gentiles too, then you say i'm pulling scripture out of thin air,how many times do you want the goal posts moved ?.
You need to keep ever before your eyes that God demonstrated his lovetowards us while we were yet sinners, this will help you to not to dwell on others serving foreign gods, breaking the commandments of God and all the other stuff you are setting your eyes upon.You too are commandment breaker if you want to bring those commandment breakers under the law to be judged, that you do not keep.
You have also not submitted to his kingship, unless you are not loving your neighbor as yourself.
God is a consuming fire true, and what is being burnt up is that which comes between the union between God and man, not man himself.
How many times do I want the goal posts moved? They are NOT movable. I am not 'dwelling' on others, except to warn them of the wrath to come. That is what we are called to do. Else, how will they escape it?
Those commandment breakers WILL BE judged under the Law, or haven't you read Romans 2? Unless one is, and I REPEAT, covered in the Blood of the Lamb, then they are lost without reprive and without hope for salvation.
You unis seem to think this can, and will, happen upon death for those who spit on the cross in this life. Yet, I argue that Christ Himsefl will spit them out of His presense. Yea, good luck with that. All you are left with after this, if the fire that awaits. Consumed, forever.
There will not be any part that remains. No gold, nor silver, nor precious stones. Why? Because these things are OF God, and that part is the part that remains. Not all people are OF God. So, if they are not OF god, then how can they count for the New Jerusalem(ISRAEL) and the building(PEOPLE) of it? They cannot, which is why they are outside, with the others, in the fire.
How many times do I want the goal posts moved? They are NOT movable. I am not 'dwelling' on others, except to warn them of the wrath to come. That is what we are called to do. Else, how will they escape it?
Those commandment breakers WILL BE judged under the Law, or haven't you read Romans 2? Unless one is, and I REPEAT, covered in the Blood of the Lamb, then they are lost without reprive and without hope for salvation.
You unis seem to think this can, and will, happen upon death for those who spit on the cross in this life. Yet, I argue that Christ Himsefl will spit them out of His presense. Yea, good luck with that. All you are left with after this, if the fire that awaits. Consumed, forever.
There will not be any part that remains. No gold, nor silver, nor precious stones. Why? Because these things are OF God, and that part is the part that remains. Not all people are OF God. So, if they are not OF god, then how can they count for the New Jerusalem(ISRAEL) and the building(PEOPLE) of it? They cannot, which is why they are outside, with the others, in the fire.
Warn them of the wrath to come ?????????? since when has this been the gospel(the good news).
Go tell your friends what great things God has done for you.
You will be judged with the commandment breakers too,believing the way you do, because everything you are saying is from a man who is still under the law.
You are conveniently forgetting that it was God through tolerance and patience and in revealing his kindness to you that brought you to repentance.You did not choose to repent no matter how much you tell yourself you did, it was granted to you.
Romans verse 4
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