What is your Jesus offering? (hell, punishment, scriptures, priests)
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Yes, but what if your current belief is that once dead you remain dead? What if your current belief is that all will okay when it is all said and done anyway? What does Jesus offer better than that?
Well, if you'd rather have it all just end at death, I don't really know how to answer you. I just know that when I've lost a loved one, my belief that it's just a temporary separation is what brings me the most comfort. If that's not how you feel, then maybe Jesus really isn't offering you anything you'd be interested in having.
Jesus offers you the high calling of having the privilege of being an ambassador of peace to the world, to tell others of the wonder and the power of God's love. What could ever bring more satisfaction to one's soul than to have this mystery revealed to one's heart and because of that to be used as a vessel of mercy to the masses of humanity who are truly suffering such deep distress of mind, body, and spirit. If you can be used to break the chains that bind the minds of others - isn't that a glorious calling? That there are many who misunderstand God's plan should not be a factor in the mix, unless, of course, you also misunderstood the depth of the calling of God's Agape love. If you believe it and receive it, you can never be the same.
I like where you're at with this but I have a question for you Heartsong ... do you think that only those who believe in Jesus can minister love and peace and mercy to those who suffer?
I like where you're at with this but I have a question for you Heartsong ... do you think that only those who believe in Jesus can minister love and peace and mercy to those who suffer?
No. But I do believe that only those who believe in the promise of the Resurrection can comfort those who fear death's sting. Yet I believe all goodness within mankind flows from God, regardless of what spiritual knowledge an individual may have. Nature itself bespeaks the resurrection, especially this time of year
No. But I do believe that only those who believe in the promise of the Resurrection can comfort those who fear death's sting.
In my experience, most people believe in some type of afterlife, whether they believe in Jesus or not. So, I'm not sure how much they fear death, itself. They may, however, fear what's going to happen to them there/then because of the influence of religious teaching, (whether it be a vengeful God, or simply kharma of some sort). I think that's the "sting" of death that most fear. In that regard, I agree that if you share with them a belief in a loving God that they can embrace, that would be healing for them.
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Yet I believe all goodness within mankind flows from God, regardless of what spiritual knowledge an individual may have.
I'm good with that. God/Love, whatever. I'm not sure, though, how one can claim to have spiritual "knowledge". A spiritual hunch, maybe?
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Nature itself bespeaks the resurrection, especially this time of year
Maybe if it would stop snowing here, I could agree with you.
Yet I believe all goodness within mankind flows from God, regardless of what spiritual knowledge an individual may have. Nature itself bespeaks the resurrection, especially this time of year
I like your view, heartsong. I fully believe that life itself all around is constantly speaking to us in countless ways. Sitting out on the grass watching an ant colony is 1000x more spiritual to me than sitting on a church pew. (not knocking church goers at all, this is just my personal view.)
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
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Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane
I wish I was perfect in how I live my life. If I was, I would be everybody's god and all of you might be worshiping me right now, right?
Never said I was perfect and I am far from it. I just happen to live a rather conservative life and always have. I don't drink (one rum and coke every 2 years or so) , do drugs (never have and I grew up with ganja fields all around me in the Caribbean), attend wild parties, curse gratuitously, frequent clubs nor have I done strip joints. I have all my children by one woman (my ex) and my children and I are extremely close and I own up to them responsibly as they live with me. I am very pleasant in personality. Never gave my mother and father any worries. I am loyal, pretty honest, never stole a freight train, no rap sheet(s). In other words, I either have never done any those "sins" people talk about nor am I addicted to any vices yet I am a normal guy into sports, athletic (jock) and can fit right in with a normal crowd (hold the drinks and drugs).
Now, that being said, I know a lot of Jesus' people and they took him up on his [alleged] offer and I can tell you some stories. I have not and I live a more exemplary life than they do so again I ask, what can Jesus offer me that can make my life BETTER or offer me after I die if there is no sulfur pit he will throw me into for eternity, but will welcome me into bliss when all is said and done.
You sound like you have a fairly positive attitude. But the "what's in it for me" is the wrong attitude to have. After reading your posts, IMO, you DO believe in God, but your looking for a second opinion or you want to hear it from someone else.
Tell me this. If I post a few testimonies (videos) from people I personally know from church that were resurrected (brought back to life) would that make a difference?
Example:""NITA"":
Nita and I are very close Christian friends. I've only known her 1 yr, but she has a very special place in my heart.
Nita Warren is now in her 50's and confined to a wheelchair. When she was 15 (70's) she was killed in a fatal auto accident (head on collision) outside of Duncan, Ok. She was Resurrected at the sceen.
NOTE:you can move the bar up 5:00 to skip the introduction. (hold down ctrl and press > for forward)
Press the tab left of the "00:00" (center) for fullscreen.
For those of you who do not preach a Gospel of coming judgment and only love and peace, why should I consider Jesus Christ if my life is already complete, at peace, prosperous and healthy? What if I already love my fellow man and want the best for all and live an upright life? What if I don’t struggle with any vice and treat others with respect. What if my only flaw (in your eyes) is that I don’t believe in your god? Isn’t it neither here nor there when all is said and done? What else can Jesus offer that I don’t know about or need? What if, in the end, you're no different from me?
Since I seem to fit somewhat into that perspective I will give a response.
In the end we are not different and you are not required to do or see anything as I do it or see it. I would hope that we could learn from one another and perhaps have a common faith that each of us doing the best we can with what we have is in the end the only tangible course to take in life.
For those of you who do not preach a Gospel of coming judgment and only love and peace, why should I consider Jesus Christ if my life is already complete, at peace, prosperous and healthy? What if I already love my fellow man and want the best for all and live an upright life? What if I don’t struggle with any vice and treat others with respect. What if my only flaw (in your eyes) is that I don’t believe in your god? Isn’t it neither here nor there when all is said and done? What else can Jesus offer that I don’t know about or need? What if, in the end, you're no different from me?
After reading more carefully and noting the response from a number of posters, I owe you an apology. I though from my initial reading that you were simply asking what Jesus could do for you that you don't now have. I now realise that you were asking those advocates of universal salvation why should you accept Jesus now when later all things will be hunky dory anyway, which is a very good question. And quite frankly, if what they teach is true, there is no reason why you should accept Jesus now. Do what you will, enjoy life, be as selfish, philanthropic, loving, spiteful, hateful, benevolent, nasty or downright evil as you like, none of it will in the long run make the slightest scrap of difference. If what they teach is true. Because you get a second chance. All will eventually be saved. Even Christians, if what universalists say is true, can compromise, be hypocrites,slanderers, teach lies and false gospels, preach false Christs and be false prophets, and even completely ignore the adjunct of Jesus to preach the gospel to all nations, why? Because who cares? Everyone is going to be saved anyway. Why preach the gospel? What difference will it make? None. God is this loving teddy bear in the clouds and will accept any Tom Dick and Adolf into His loving heavenly home regardless of the choices one makes in this life.If what they teach is true.
But if it isn't true, and those same Christians carry on with their hypocrisy and their compromising of God's standards and their ignorance of His righteousness, and those same unbelievers carry on without giving God glory for their existence, then maybe there is something Jesus can offer you after all.....perhaps all of us.
After reading more carefully and noting the response from a number of posters, I owe you an apology. I though from my initial reading that you were simply asking what Jesus could do for you that you don't now have. I now realise that you were asking those advocates of universal salvation why should you accept Jesus now when later all things will be hunky dory anyway, which is a very good question. And quite frankly, if what they teach is true, there is no reason why you should accept Jesus now. Do what you will, enjoy life, be as selfish, philanthropic, loving, spiteful, hateful, benevolent, nasty or downright evil as you like, none of it will in the long run make the slightest scrap of difference. If what they teach is true. Because you get a second chance. All will eventually be saved. Even Christians, if what universalists say is true, can compromise, be hypocrites,slanderers, teach lies and false gospels, preach false Christs and be false prophets, and even completely ignore the adjunct of Jesus to preach the gospel to all nations, why? Because who cares? Everyone is going to be saved anyway. Why preach the gospel? What difference will it make? None. God is this loving teddy bear in the clouds and will accept any Tom Dick and Adolf into His loving heavenly home regardless of the choices one makes in this life.If what they teach is true.
But if it isn't true, and those same Christians carry on with their hypocrisy and their compromising of God's standards and their ignorance of His righteousness, and those same unbelievers carry on without giving God glory for their existence, then maybe there is something Jesus can offer you after all.....perhaps all of us.
It is amazing what complete ignorance exists about Christian Universalism . . . and what arrogance in not even trying to actually understand it. Everything you have said above is pure nonsense. But I have a question for you. If Adolph Hitler actually "repented" before his death . . . how would that in any way make up for his actions in this life? How would that be any less incredible than the claims of Christian Universalists? The hypocrisy and arrogance of so many "believers" is beyond the pale, IMO.
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