Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Lying so called Christians are not going to heaven. The children of God do not willfully lie. If you're asked a question that you do not want to answer, then don't answer it. Just because Rahab lied, that does not mean that God's will was done in the matter. Likewise, just because Jacob deceived his father Issac about the blessing, that does not mean it was God's will for Rebecca and Jacob to handle it like that. We have to rightly divide the word of truth. Matter of fact, afterward, Jacob endure many years of being deceived by Laban; you reap what you sow.
05-01-2011, 10:18 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
Lying so called Christians are not going to heaven. The children of God do not willfully lie. If you're asked a question that you do not want to answer, then don't answer it. Just because Rahab lied, that does not mean that God's will was done in the matter. Likewise, just because Jacob deceived his father Issac about the blessing, that does not mean it was God's will for Rebecca and Jacob to handle it like that. We have to rightly divide the word of truth. Matter of fact, afterward, Jacob endure many years of being deceived by Laban; you reap what you sow.
I think you ought to consider why God would say that lying is wrong - even though he does not say why in the Bible. Then ask yourself if it is possible to lie without violating those reasons. Also, all circumstances do not afford one to be silent. The idea that the 'rule' is supreme is really impractical, unrealistic, and even contradictory. It really does not leave room for thought or circumstance and can give rise to all kinds of misguided actions - just because some authority says so.
In most situations a big lie to cover one's actions or to harm another person usually needs another one to back it up, then another, another and another..until they don't even remember what the truth was when confronted.
I taught my kids and grands that many times the truth hurts, but it is what it is..the truth..
What we call little white lies are not sinful, imo.
They are said to build the person's confidence or to make their otherwise sad day a little happier..
Sometimes a person lies without intention by passing on something not said by an individual, but passed along anyway in their anger to hurt or discredit a person..These are lies with malicious intent and one may need to ask forgiveness for these.
I think you ought to consider why God would say that lying is wrong - even though he does not say why in the Bible. Then ask yourself if it is possible to lie without violating those reasons. Also, all circumstances do not afford one to be silent. The idea that the 'rule' is supreme is really impractical, unrealistic, and even contradictory. It really does not leave room for thought or circumstance and can give rise to all kinds of misguided actions - just because some authority says so.
I use Jesus as my example, as we are supposed to. When He was tried, did He lie to protect Himself or anyone else?
05-01-2011, 10:59 AM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
I use Jesus as my example, as we are supposed to. When He was tried, did He lie to protect Himself or anyone else?
Not a very good example - was he trying to protect himself or anyone else - no. Furthermore, I nor you are God in flesh so good luck with that. Since when does the life of Christ exhaust all possible circumstances that we as humans may find ourselves in? Unless or until I can make a coin appear out of a fishes mouth or walk on water I might have to consider other options.
I hope you are not one of these people who when confronted with say a lie or the death of another person you close your eyes, hold your breath, and clinch your fist and hope it all goes away because you do not want to play God or break a 'rule' for fear of going to the bad place.
Personally, I do not think God is pleased nor has any use for unwise and robotic children of that sort.
Not a very good example - was he trying to protect himself or anyone else - no. Furthermore, I nor you are God in flesh so good luck with that. Since when does the life of Christ exhaust all possible circumstances that we as humans may find ourselves in? Unless or until I can make a coin appear out of a fishes mouth or walk on water I might have to consider other options.
I hope you are not one of these people who when confronted with say a lie or the death of another person you close your eyes, hold your breath, and clinch your fist and hope it all goes away because you do not want to play God or break a 'rule' for fear of going to the bad place.
Personally, I do not think God is pleased nor has any use for unwise and robotic children of that sort.
This is where Christians err, being without faith; they have plenty of belief, but no faith. They don't think they have to live free from sin, such as lying, like Jesus because we are but flesh; but, in fact, Jesus took on the flesh like us to show us the way to walk the waters of this life. To be like Jesus is to be our ever-questing goal; we are instructed to put on the mind of Christ.
1 John 2:6 - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1 Peter 4
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
05-01-2011, 12:33 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
This is where Christians err, being without faith; they have plenty of belief, but no faith. They don't think they have to live free from sin, such as lying, like Jesus because we are but flesh; but, in fact, Jesus took on the flesh like us to show us the way to walk the waters of this life. To be like Jesus is to be our ever-questing goal; we are instructed to put on the mind of Christ.
1 John 2:6 - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1 Peter 4
[1] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[2] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
I think you are getting off track. I have asked you why lying is wrong and you have given nothing other than God said so - but why?
You are starting to act like that robot I was talking about - just going to the default position - the Book says so, God said so, its right here in this verse. C'mon. Why is it not ok to lie? Then ask yourself does every circumstance violate those reasons.
You seem to think that if we can find a good reason to lie then everyone would just start to justify all lying in all circumstances or that morality is somehow compromised and goes down the toilet.
I find it amazing that you have not justified why one should not in certain circumstances or think that motive and intent have nothing to do with the act itself - that if you seek to lie in a certain circumstance we are just making excuses to live in sin and that this is somehow worldly and fleshly. God help you.
I think you are getting off track. I have asked you why lying is wrong and you have given nothing other than God said so - but why?
You are starting to act like that robot I was talking about - just going to the default position - the Book says so, God said so, its right here in this verse. C'mon. Why is it not ok to lie? Then ask yourself does every circumstance violate those reasons.
You seem to think that if we can find a good reason to lie then everyone would just start to justify all lying in all circumstances or that morality is somehow compromised and goes down the toilet.
I find it amazing that you have not justified why one should not in certain circumstances or think that motive and intent have nothing to do with the act itself - that if you seek to lie in a certain circumstance we are just making excuses to live in sin and that this is somehow worldly and fleshly. God help you.
Yes, by default I believe what God says and demonstrated through the life of Jesus, not the theories of men that justify lying and other sinning.
05-01-2011, 01:51 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham
Yes, by default I believe what God says and demonstrated through the life of Jesus, not the theories of men that justify lying and other sinning.
And yet you know not why? And yet so many things were justified by men of God and ignored by God in this very issue. God himslef must be subject to this abstract law you must uphold at all costs - he doesn't even know why. Son, you had a chance to save a life by lying why did you not lie, because you said not too - Oh good Boy - we do not worry about consequences here just do as your told and take no thought of it - my rules are absolute now come and enter into the joy of keeping rules and to hell with the results.
Oh well, mindless religion - I can not argue with that.
And yet you know not why? And yet so many things were justified by men of God and ignored by God in this very issue. God himslef must be subject to this abstract law you must uphold at all costs - he doesn't even know why. Son, you had a chance to save a life by lying why did you not lie, because you said not too - Oh good Boy - we do not worry about consequences here just do as your told and take no thought of it - my rules are absolute now come and enter into the joy of keeping rules and to hell with the results.
Oh well, mindless religion - I can not argue with that.
Does God really mean what He says about lying? The serpent came against Eve with his so-called logic to overthrow her, and he succeeded because she let go of God's Word.
Genesis 3:1 - Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
The serpent started off by questioning the Word, and he's still in business today.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
