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There is no such thing as a 'good person' . No one is good...not one. We all have a dark personality to us which is our Sin Nature. The occassional good act doesnt nullify our dark personality -- we all have lied, swore, cheated, looked down upon a minority, been self centered, been disrespectful toward another, and the list goes on. A good person in Gods eyes, is only his Son Jesus Christ .
So a "good God" made "bad people"? Anyways, I stand by my statement.
Do not credit ANY of this dogma, Pleroo. It is entirely the rote "precepts and doctrines of men" indoctrinated into the mainstream churches by not very Christian men. Even if belief WAS a choice (which it isn't) . . . ET or Annihilation would not achieve it and certainly would not produce love of God. It is an entirely bogus and ignorant ancient dogma that should be discarded for "love of God and each other."
Then you obviously dont believe in or trust in The Bible which claims and proves to be the very inspired words of God to all of mankind. You can believe in the love of God and each other...but it wont cancel out your many accumulated sins which need to be dealt with ; a sacrifice is required by God and just believing in Gods nature of love without his intrinsic nature of justice, make you fall short of Gods plan of salvation . Gods love is tied up in the sending of his Son to personally die for you so you dont end up in a God-less eternal place. Gods loving and sole plan for mankind is summed up in John 3;16 ---- push that to the backburner and a person is lost.
So a "good God" made "bad people"? Anyways, I stand by my statement.
No...a Good God made people to have the freewill choice of living righteously or not and it was our first Parents that willfully chose the latter ... something that has stayed with all of mankind since. We have all rebelled against God and his expectation of how we should live our lives . If you are going to call someone 'good', then Gods definition of that is the person living up to ALL of Gods moral requirements and all of the time. There is only one person who ever lived that was able to live such a sinless life, and he is the one whos sacrifical death for us was totally sufficient to save our Souls from our sin. Jesus Christ, the Son of God . Recieve him for payment of your many sins and God will then look upon you in the same light he does his Son...there has to be a transfer : CHrists righteousness for our sin . There is no other way of getting to heaven and being made right in Gods eyes. He paid the price because we werent good enough to. Have you recieved the merits of CHrist unto yourself for forgiveness of sins yet ? I trust you will asap because you and I are only a heartbeat away from eternity , and then the offer expires. Regards.
Then you obviously dont believe in or trust in The Bible which claims and proves to be the very inspired words of God to all of mankind.
As a Christian . . . I believe and trust Christ, period. You do not properly divide the scriptures into those that were merely inspirations from God interpreted by MEN and those that were directly received from Jesus Christ THEWord of God.
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You can believe in the love of God and each other...but it wont cancel out your many accumulated sins which need to be dealt with ; a sacrifice is required by God
Those are the commands of Christ. When you can intelligently and rationally explain WHY God would require any kind of sacrifice (let alone such a horrific one) . . . perhaps we can continue this discussion. Otherwise your views are intransigent dogma and you have no thoughts of your own. There would be no useful dialogue possible.
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and just believing in Gods nature of love without his intrinsic nature of justice, make you fall short of Gods plan of salvation . Gods love is tied up in the sending of his Son to personally die for you so you dont end up in a God-less eternal place. Gods loving and sole plan for mankind is summed up in John 3;16 ---- push that to the backburner and a person is lost.
You apparently haven't the slightest clue what justice is . . . and do not try to say "God's ways are not our ways" and other similar nonsense.
1. Yes, according to God and his plan, it is either/or. Thats how eternity works in his eyes. THere is no other name (or method) by which man can be saved .. and that is by way of Christ on the cross (Acts 4:12) . Its a free undeserved gift from God which cannot be earned, bought, or negoiated on.
You said that EITHER one believes in what you believe is God's plan of salvation OR they are trying to make amends to God by their own efforts. And that simply is not true. So setting it up as an either/or is misleading.
Further, if, as you say, salvation is a free and undeserved gift, then why do you try to attach strings to it?
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2. Non-christians are considered the unregenerate according to The BIble and if they remain in this state thru the physical death process, then they are permanently alienated from God and forfiet Heaven -- the choice to be born anew must be done in this short earthly life. Its not enough for such a person to have trust, count on, or depend on Gods loving nature to be saved ; God has demonstrated the depth of his love for us by sending his Son to die on the cross -- if that is rejected then there is no Plan B . Its not cruel for God to allow someone to go to Hell...it is simply GOd granting what the person always desires while on earth : Great distance .
It's not enough for people to trust or depend on God!?? That honestly blows me away and I don't even know how to respond to that. As for saying God is granting people what they desire (distance from God) when very clearly many non-Christians have no desire at all for distance from God makes no sense.
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3. There are many states of Mind and Heart among people who label themselves as CHristians...but the only thing that counts is if they line up with what the BIble definition of a true CHristian is and that is most clearly defined in Romans 10:8-14 . I fear that a great many people who believe themselves to be Christian, do so for the wrong reasons ... and like The Apostle Paul said in Galatians 1:1-6 many hold to a different 'gospel' which has no power to save therefore, they arent saved. It isnt by way of believing in God the Creator, or his loving nature , church attendence, doing good deeds, giving to charities, etc... but it IS dependent on the redemptive work of Christ alone on cross --- a one time sacrifice that is totally sufficient for all time and for all people. Have you ever trusted just in the finished work of Christ on the cross to be saved (plus nothing else) ? Thanks.
Jesus revealed that loving nature. You say that it is because of the depth of God's love that Jesus was sent to die on a cross and further you say that was totally sufficient for all time and for all people. It makes no sense then to turn around and say that if people trust God's love for them, it's not enough and what Jesus did is no longer sufficient.
It's not enough for people to trust or depend on God!?? That honestly blows me away and I don't even know how to respond to that. As for saying God is granting people what they desire (distance from God) when very clearly many non-Christians have no desire at all for distance from God makes no sense.
Ps. Has it ever occurred to you, 007.5, that it is not the REAL God that people want distance from, but only the warped and inconsistent understanding of God that so many put forth, including the one that many Christians proclaim?
There is no such thing as a 'good person' . No one is good...not one. We all have a dark personality to us which is our Sin Nature. The occassional good act doesnt nullify our dark personality -- we all have lied, swore, cheated, looked down upon a minority, been self centered, been disrespectful toward another, and the list goes on. A good person in Gods eyes, is only his Son Jesus Christ .
The Bible teaches that only God is good, and that all good things come from God. Wouldn't it follow then that any good thing any person does, Christian or not, comes from God?
The Bible teaches that only God is good, and that all good things come from God. Wouldn't it follow then that any good thing any person does, Christian or not, comes from God?
No...a Good God made people to have the freewill choice of living righteously or not and it was our first Parents that willfully chose the latter ... something that has stayed with all of mankind since. We have all rebelled against God and his expectation of how we should live our lives . If you are going to call someone 'good', then Gods definition of that is the person living up to ALL of Gods moral requirements and all of the time. There is only one person who ever lived that was able to live such a sinless life, and he is the one whos sacrifical death for us was totally sufficient to save our Souls from our sin. Jesus Christ, the Son of God . Recieve him for payment of your many sins and God will then look upon you in the same light he does his Son...there has to be a transfer : CHrists righteousness for our sin . There is no other way of getting to heaven and being made right in Gods eyes. He paid the price because we werent good enough to. Have you recieved the merits of CHrist unto yourself for forgiveness of sins yet ? I trust you will asap because you and I are only a heartbeat away from eternity , and then the offer expires. Regards.
You seem to feel that no person is "good" (a typical Christian viewpoint). However, you also feel that the "best" of the "no-goods" are those that have given themselves to Christ (Christians). Therefore, your answer (though crypted) to the OP was Yes, one must be Christian in order to be "good". Not "good" by God's standards (because no one is that "good") but "good" enough to earn a spot in heaven. I don't agree with, nor believe in any of this. I stand by my original statement.
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