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Not according to the context of the response Christ gave to the Pharasee when they accused Him of casting out Demons in the name of Beelzebub...
"Within the context of a loving God Who IS Love," for me the UR solution to the problem of unpardonable sin is quite simple.
Instead of being forgiven, the offender will suffer the consequenses.
But the consequenses are eonian, not eternal.
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
WHY CALVINISM IS PARTLY RIGHT
A snippet from J. Preston Eby's
GOD'S PLAN OF THE AGES - REDEMPTION IN TWO PARTS
I agree with this.... but this is only for today. Today, today, today. not in the life thereafter because then they are dead. No will, no emotions. That's why we are alive and breathing today.... so that we can know (mind) who we are. We are Children of God.
You do not understand the physics of consciousness so you think that when the "factory" stops producing the "product" that has already been produced also ends. It does not. Consciousness is a composite form of pure energy which cannot be destroyed . . . only transformed. We do not know of any way that "migol consciousness energy" can be transformed into anything else. So it is eternal and accumulating within the collective human consciousness in the universal field (God's consciousness) until you are reborn as Spirit after your death (born again) when it will join God's consciousness (after any appropriate "refinement").
You do not understand the physics of consciousness so you think that when the "factory" stops producing the "product" that has already been produced also ends. It does not. Consciousness is a composite form of pure energy which cannot be destroyed . . . only transformed. We do not know of any way that "migol consciousness energy" can be transformed into anything else. So it is eternal and accumulating within the collective human consciousness in the universal field (God's consciousness) until you are reborn as Spirit after your death (born again) when it will join God's consciousness (after any appropriate "refinement").
I agree in part with what you say. I'm not saying the soul is not eternal. Maybe I didn't phrase the post you quoted correctly.
What I don't agree with is that the "rebirth" happens after you die. The rebirth has to happen while the soul can exercise its will. After death, who is to say that our will can still be exercised? That's my whole contention.... the soul has to come to repentance in this life, not in the next. There's no scriptural passage to support that. There is more scripture to support that it's in this life we must come to know Christ.
I view death as the soul being locked in a different realm in which it no longer has a choice. The thing about ghosts comes to mind... they stay trapped in earthly possessions, there is a long and deep sadness, but they can't snap out of it because the soul doesn't know where it is. That's what Christ came to deliver us from. And it is in this present life that the soul must come to the acknowledgement of who its creator is and what it has planned for it in this life and after the next.
You said it yourself. "Consciousness is a form of pure energy which cannot be destroyed." But when it has no temple to abide, that is our body, the consciousness can no longer exercise its will. All it is, is roaming free, in the universe, so to speak.
God will eventually successfully influence all wills
Quote:
Originally Posted by migol84
I view death as the soul being locked in a different realm in which it no longer has a choice. And it is in this present life that the soul must come to the acknowledgement of who its creator is and what it has planned for it in this life and after the next.
I am so glad that, like J. Preston Eby, I can see in the Bible a God for Whom the human will is no problem for Him to eventually successfully influence, either in this life on earth, or after we are raised from the dead, according to His perfect timing for the salvation of every individual.
I agree in part with what you say. I'm not saying the soul is not eternal. Maybe I didn't phrase the post you quoted correctly.
What I don't agree with is that the "rebirth" happens after you die. The rebirth has to happen while the soul can exercise its will. After death, who is to say that our will can still be exercised? That's my whole contention.... the soul has to come to repentance in this life, not in the next. There's no scriptural passage to support that. There is more scripture to support that it's in this life we must come to know Christ.
I view death as the soul being locked in a different realm in which it no longer has a choice. The thing about ghosts comes to mind... they stay trapped in earthly possessions, there is a long and deep sadness, but they can't snap out of it because the soul doesn't know where it is. That's what Christ came to deliver us from. And it is in this present life that the soul must come to the acknowledgement of who its creator is and what it has planned for it in this life and after the next.
This life is the "womb" existence for our "embryo Spirit" which is "born of God" (gennao . . . begotten). BUT . . . you cannot be reborn or "born again" until this life is ended. None of us are "like the wind." What is "born of Spirit is Spirit" and IS "like the wind."
Repentance is a "replaying" of your past thoughts and feelings that were NOT love . . . and remaking them in "love of God and each other." It is best if it is done here while the "factory" can alter the composite. But there is no specification in ANY scripture that this must occur before rebirth as Spirit. It just will be far more unpleasant resulting in the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" during the "refinement" when most of our works would be destroyed . . . while we remain saved. God will have His way and be all in all.
Quote:
You said it yourself. "Consciousness is a form of pure energy which cannot be destroyed." But when it has no temple to abide, that is our body, the consciousness can no longer exercise its will. All it is, is roaming free, in the universe, so to speak.
Consciousness exists at a completely different level of becoming. You are correct in that this life at our level of becoming is the most important determinant of what it becomes while we are still physically alive. But to believe that once it is released from the spiritual "womb" that our reborn "infant Spirit" will no longer be able to continue to become is not rational. We did not stop becoming when we left the physical womb.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 06-14-2011 at 09:58 AM..
This life is the "womb" existence for our "embryo Spirit" which is "born of God" (gennao . . . begotten). BUT . . . you cannot be reborn or "born again" until this life is ended. None of us are "like the wind." What is "born of Spirit is Spirit" and IS "like the wind."
I'll get more into this later... but right off the bat, "to them that believed in his name, he gave them the power to be called the Sons of God. children not born of flesh and blood but by God."
"Beloved now are we the Sons of God..."
"Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
I think it's significant that the doctrine of eternal torment is always associated with darkness. It was born in the Dark Ages; it was born of lies and deceit and used for dark, nefarious purposes; it flourished throughout the Dark Ages; its poison was so strong by this time that it was partially responsible for the slaughter of untold numbers of Christians during the 15th-18th centuries; there's just a malevolent mood of darkness that accompanies anyone who comes peddling it; it paints our loving God as some kind of sinister villain out of a cheap dime-store novel who darkens the stage whenever he enters the scene. To tell you the truth I get the shivers whenever an ET'er starts saying, "You'd better believe in it or God will roast you for all eternity" and not because I deep-down believe what he is saying, but because it like Darth Vader is suddenly in the room and the sunlight disappears behind a dark cloud. It's spooky.
"Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Will we have a mouth when we die?
Yes we will.
and every tongue acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord
God wills that all mankind be saved (1 Tim 2:4)
Operating all in accord with counsel of His will (Eph 1:11)
In Adam all dying; in Christ shall all be vivified (1 Cor 15:21-23)
It says "in Christ shall all," not "all who are in Christ."
Lamb of God taking away sin of the world (John 1:29)
One offense for all mankind for condemnation... (Rom 5:18-19)
Correspondent ransom for all (1 Tim 2:6)
Every knee bowing in the Name of Jesus (Phil 2:9; Is 45:23)
“in” is the literal Greek translation. See Young’s Literal Translation and every tongue acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord.
And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord,
especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.
Locks all in stubbornness; to be merciful to all (Rom 11:30-32)
All created ... to reconcile all (Col 1:16-20)
He should be tasting death for the sake of everyone (Heb 2:9)
God was in Christ conciliating the world to Himself (2 Cor 5:18)
That the world might be saved thru Him (John 3:17)
The idea is not the notion that something perhaps will occur. "Might" here reflects the subjunctive mode, the idea of which is how one thing depends on another, as in: "I loosen my fingers so that the book might be falling . . . ." The book definitely will fall, because I loosened my fingers.
I'll get more into this later... but right off the bat, "to them that believed in his name, he gave them the power to be called the Sons of God. children not born of flesh and blood but by God."
"Beloved now are we the Sons of God..."
"Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Will we have a mouth when we die?
Until you lose your "carnal or physical" perspective of reality . . . we will be talking at cross purposes. We are "born of God" (gennao/begotten) . . . that means "conceived" in this physical body (womb). We cannot be "born again" until this fleshly life we are born into is over. When the verses were written the ignorance about personhood residing in the concept of consciousness was not known. Heart was used instead of what we now know as our mind. Mouth was used to express what our consciousness produced. We are so far from on the same page.
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Why Calvinism is partly right
God will eventually successfully influence all wills
