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I just wanted to make note about how the Egyptians sacrificed animals, The Babylonians sacrificed animals, and the Israelites also sacrificed animals.
AND
Only in the case of the Israelites was this supposedly supposed to "graphically illustrate the work that Christ would do." The other cases were obviously illustrating something else.
So obviously then, If Christ came to "pay for our sins" through his death, then this was God The Father's will for the Jews to reject and kill him...for our ultimate salvation, because Jesus and the Father are ONE, and therefore God The Father wanted the Jews to reject Christ so that our sins could be paid for.
This is all just to clarify, if this is your understanding?
For, if the Jews had accepted their Messiah...we'd all be LOST IN OUR SINS WITH NO HOPE. Is this right? For it was the death and sacrifice and blood of Christ that saved us, yes?
Or, was it really the PATH THAT LEADS TO SALVATION THAT CHRIST TAUGHT THAT SAVES US? Which is it?
One could say that "if the Jews had accepted him" all would have been well in the entire Universe...but it can't work that way...because the scriptures say "he was pierced" so we can't have it both ways. He had to be pierced and wounded for our transgressions.
Or, was it really the PATH THAT LEADS TO SALVATION THAT CHRIST TAUGHT THAT SAVES US? Which is it?
Cute, and I have to say, clever too. Yeah, if you read the sort of stuff I read, which is what dead people have to say, you quickly learn that nobody has ever personally discovered that the death of Jesus has "paid" for their sins. Nope. They all have to pay the price of their own sins.
That being the case, you have to find another reason. And the "path" is possibly that reason.
Which leads to the next question: "What was that path?" and "Where did it lead to?"
And, since everyone wakes up after death and a lot of non-Christians are not in any hell, clearly the definition of "path" is likely to be quite different from the orthodox Christian notion that some reach "heaven" with all the rest in "hell". (With an upstanding example like the late Jerry Falwell in the hells, that notion is not up to scratch.)
So, if you find this "new path" you need to be able to define where it leads, and what it saves you from.
Yes there is no other path that leads to salvation apart from the cross and death and resurrection of Jesus , for Jesus said that No one come to the Father but through Him and Him alone ........ See the Sacrifice of Jesus was a horrible crime that the carnal dark spirit manipulated of man , and as the judgment from God is life of all people who turn to Jesus and away from the sin from the carnal dark spirit needs to manipulate on him to separate him from God ...... The Lord Jesus will put a spirit of life which bring salvation and everlasting life to all who receive as His judgment on this horrible death that Jesus went thorough........ See the Christian Martyrs of Rome and other areas , who's blood they shed would not bring salvation to no one , but Jesus Blood sacrifices is the last and a finished works ...... People who deny this gift of salvation have never even tried to turn to Jesus and received His gift , because If they did they would have a witness of their development in Christ that would change their ideas ........... All the sacrifices of bulls and goats other ares of the Old Testament were their as a blood meal that covenant in the Lord were there as the Spirit of life the true living God would bring sacrifices and a point of contact to God so repentances and prayer would be given , but these sacrifices have gone and today if people were to have a blood covenant meal today to the Lord than Holy Communion last supper meal to the remembrance of Jesus is the one only covenant recognized in Heaven were repentance and prayer can be given....... be Blessed in Christ ......
When i read the title of this thread, this piece of scripture came to mind:
Romans 5:8-9- But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
How He lived should be what we should strive to achieve
I just wanted to make note about how the Egyptians sacrificed animals, The Babylonians sacrificed animals, and the Israelites also sacrificed animals.
AND
Only in the case of the Israelites was this supposedly supposed to "graphically illustrate the work that Christ would do." The other cases were obviously illustrating something else.
So obviously then, If Christ came to "pay for our sins" through his death, then this was God The Father's will for the Jews to reject and kill him...for our ultimate salvation, because Jesus and the Father are ONE, and therefore God The Father wanted the Jews to reject Christ so that our sins could be paid for.
This is all just to clarify, if this is your understanding?
For, if the Jews had accepted their Messiah...we'd all be LOST IN OUR SINS WITH NO HOPE. Is this right? For it was the death and sacrifice and blood of Christ that saved us, yes?
Or, was it really the PATH THAT LEADS TO SALVATION THAT CHRIST TAUGHT THAT SAVES US? Which is it?
One could say that "if the Jews had accepted him" all would have been well in the entire Universe...but it can't work that way...because the scriptures say "he was pierced" so we can't have it both ways. He had to be pierced and wounded for our transgressions.
It is the PATH we are to follow...and this is made plainly obvious by the current state of the majority of folks adhereing to and following man made religions...most of which do not even attempt to FOLLOW the path Jesus and many others laid out for us to follow. You would think intelligent and rational people would have figured this out by now...Just saying
Cute, and I have to say, clever too. Yeah, if you read the sort of stuff I read, which is what dead people have to say, you quickly learn that nobody has ever personally discovered that the death of Jesus has "paid" for their sins. Nope. They all have to pay the price of their own sins.
That being the case, you have to find another reason. And the "path" is possibly that reason.
Which leads to the next question: "What was that path?" and "Where did it lead to?"
And, since everyone wakes up after death and a lot of non-Christians are not in any hell, clearly the definition of "path" is likely to be quite different from the orthodox Christian notion that some reach "heaven" with all the rest in "hell". (With an upstanding example like the late Jerry Falwell in the hells, that notion is not up to scratch.)
So, if you find this "new path" you need to be able to define where it leads, and what it saves you from.
Wow...you sidestepped the actual question completely. The truth is...I completely have faith in Christ. You people here will never be able to figure out what I really beleive because this is all an experiment for something I'm writing. This is all research. And it's all being compiled.
If you don't have an answer...just say so.
All we have to do to answer your question is to go to the Gospels and read what Christ taught. duh. Were all Christ's teachings null and void because of Paul's "saved by grace" doctrine? Hardly.
The Path and where it leads to:
"Narrow is thepaththat leads to salvation and few be it that find it"
It's not us paying for the sins completely...or Christ paying for the sins completely. "Pick up your cross and follow me." It's a team effort. His hand is reaching down, and our hand is reaching up. We do it together, otherwise it's not possible. Why do we always play this EITHER/OR chicken and egg game? LOOK AT THE WORDS OF CHRIST HIMSELF.
In the meantime...does anyone have an actual answer to my question..instead of flying off on a tangent and trying to launch petty insults?
Yes there is no other path that leads to salvation apart from the cross and death and resurrection of Jesus , for Jesus said that No one come to the Father but through Him and Him alone ........ See the Sacrifice of Jesus was a horrible crime that the carnal dark spirit manipulated of man , and as the judgment from God is life of all people who turn to Jesus and away from the sin from the carnal dark spirit needs to manipulate on him to separate him from God ...... The Lord Jesus will put a spirit of life which bring salvation and everlasting life to all who receive as His judgment on this horrible death that Jesus went thorough........ See the Christian Martyrs of Rome and other areas , who's blood they shed would not bring salvation to no one , but Jesus Blood sacrifices is the last and a finished works ...... People who deny this gift of salvation have never even tried to turn to Jesus and received His gift , because If they did they would have a witness of their development in Christ that would change their ideas ........... All the sacrifices of bulls and goats other ares of the Old Testament were their as a blood meal that covenant in the Lord were there as the Spirit of life the true living God would bring sacrifices and a point of contact to God so repentances and prayer would be given , but these sacrifices have gone and today if people were to have a blood covenant meal today to the Lord than Holy Communion last supper meal to the remembrance of Jesus is the one only covenant recognized in Heaven were repentance and prayer can be given....... be Blessed in Christ ......
Thanks brother. Very well done. That's something I can chew on.
By the way..I accepted Christ when I was 5 years old and have always known him. I experience tremendous love and inspiration and all those who know me personally know this of me. So I'm not really a heretic.
It is hard for me to do this...and ask these things here.
I have experienced some issues with my faith the last few years to be sure...after many many years of walking with the Lord. I pray to the Father now instead of Jesus and things seem to work out better. I also have a Jewish father with lung cancer, who has enough money to be taken care of...but this religious chasm between us has always been painful. More on that another time.
It is the PATH we are to follow...and this is made plainly obvious by the current state of the majority of folks adhereing to and following man made religions...most of which do not even attempt to FOLLOW the path Jesus and many others laid out for us to follow. You would think intelligent and rational people would have figured this out by now...Just saying
Yes Christy, this is what I think also.
Often when you try to talk to these people who follow the "orthodoxy" about something right in front of their eyes...they can't and won't see it...and that is really strange!!!
Often when you try to talk to these people who follow the "orthodoxy" about something right in front of their eyes...they can't and won't see it...and that is really strange!!!
It's quite easy, just think back to when you too were like that and you will find it is not that strange at all.
Isaiah 42:16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them.
It's quite easy, just think back to when you too were like that and you will find it is not that strange at all.
Isaiah 42:16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them.
A wonderful scripture. I love the book of Isaiah.
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