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With God given intelligence..and God given insight and clear perception - there is one rule - If it smells like a manipulative lie it is...as Jesus said "Why do you doubt" - I frimly believe that he meant..why do you doubt your own eyes and ears and mind? That is the problem these days - the average person can not face reality..It's just to much for them to bear. When Christ said I am the truth...it makes you think what TRUTH - is - some will say "that is YOUR truth" - which is a load of crap...because truth translated into another word is REALITY - we do NOT have seperate reality..Just different states of fear driven dellusion...Time humanity go the message - time to face reality and ask the black and white question - is this real or is this not? Is this good or is it bad?..very simple - when people tell you there are "grey areas" - look out..there is no such thing as grey in the world of logic...or truth - or justice..eg..A person could say in a very Orwellian manner - "I did not kill the man...I simply changed him" - no! The man can not be partially dead...You are either alive or you are not. Moral relativism...is destroying the fabric that is reality...as we see in the decay of our monetary system - our system of education - of politics and so on...It is either true - OR IT IS NOT!
What sane man hears the voice of God or Jesus coming down out of the sky - either Paul was having a stroke - or he was some sort of delluded liar. God is not a human being and God does not need a voice...nor would he have sent personal audable messages to Paul..If Paul were alive today and he went to the doctor...and said that he hear Jesus talking from the sky and asking "Paul..why do you persecute me?" - That Paul would have ended up in the hospital.....
Paul was a very shrewd and ambitious man..sure he say the brilliance in Christian thought - BUT - I can not help but hold an ancient grudge against the man...especially when the beautiful Saint Steven..was being stoned to death - Paul held the cloaks of the killers in support - Paul was a talentless guy that was driven by envy - He wanted to be holy but God just did not give him the gift ./. so he depended on intellect..but in the end he got his just deserts in Rome...
I am sure the Roman authorities who demanded total loyality must have asked this question of them selves regarding Paul...."If he can not be loyal to his supposed Christian brothers and sisters..how can he possibly be loyal to the state of Rome?..................so they disposed of Paul because he could not be trusted--If Rome believed that Paul was trust worthy they would not have gotten rid of him.
There is this word that I have a problem with "worship"...does logic dictate that an all powerful enteral mighty force expects us to bow down and worship him or "it" - that does not make sense..respect it might make more sense? Put it in human terms...there is an ant hill - do you or I expect the ants to come out and start bowing...? Where is the reward in that?
paul's letters were to the gentiles. there is no contradictions once we realize that Jesus spoke to the Jews about the kingdom. Paul was commisioned to the gentiles. Two different gospels for 2 different peoples, each will play a different role in the coming kingdom. Of course you will be saved, we are saved because of what Jesus did.
paul's letters were to the gentiles. there is no contradictions once we realize that Jesus spoke to the Jews about the kingdom. Paul was commisioned to the gentiles. Two different gospels for 2 different peoples, each will play a different role in the coming kingdom. Of course you will be saved, we are saved because of what Jesus did.
Not so much about what Jesus "did" but what he said. It was said that Paul was from a Romanized family and he was very ambititous..He craved notoriety..and political power - I can not help but think that Paul was a visonary and knew that the teachings of Christ could rule empires - which it did in time..I really don't believe that Jesus intended for PARTs of his message to be used politically while the other parts were excluded from the gospel.
Why is it that ROMAN catholics put so much focus on Paul - and on the mother of Jesus? Perhaps it was because the state of ROME..did not really see ALL of the ideas of Jesus useful..in fact some of the ideas of Christ would have posed a threat politically to the existance of ROME (the state)...so it makes sense that those that complied the gospels - especially Pauls' - cherry picked what was needed to maintain political control and jettisoned what was NOT needed..or what was a threat. That is why I hold Paul in some sense of contempt...he struck me as a little weasil.
This has been a debate for quite some time. The danger of course is getting back under the Law. Jesus said himself that he fulfilled the Law. The Law was given to see how we fall short.
Suggesting that the problem with Paul's writings is not Paul but the teachers taking him out of context. Peter even alludes to the concept that many wrestle with his writings to their own destruction.
The foundation to build upon is Christ. Paul says this. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the foundation of doctrine and all scripture must come branching from his teachings.
Before we proclaim Paul as a false Apostle, study how he isn't one. We are saved by no merit of ourselves. It is merely by the grace of God we are saved by a gift from God. Because we are saved, we have the Holy Spirit in our lives thus the ability to produce fruit worthy of repentance (abiding in the vine). In order produce much fruit we need to die to self transforming our values from ours to the Lords. Fear of the Lord is humility understanding our fallen predicament and source of life is him by submission. Without him we are under the power of Spiritual Darkness.
Paul says how can we sin when we are dead to it?
John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
The Lord is the Holy Spirit. The Christian mission in life is to abide in the spirit and bring forth fruit by dying to self and increasing in Jesus. Every day we break the Law. Did you covet anything today? I know I did. It's because of our fallen nature. That's why Jesus is our Savior! We can't keep the Law good enough. If we transgress one commandment in our life we are guilty of all!
It's clear throughout the entire scripture that Man clearly can do nothing to save themselves except put their faith in Almighty God to redeem them through his messiah Jesus and what he's done. Our Righteousness is filthy Rags. Go through Paul's writings and how many times he quotes the Old Testament.
How do we produce fruit? Abiding in the Vine Jesus/Holy Spirit/God by dying to self letting him work good works through us. Through his spirit we crucify vain desires of the flesh that destroy.
John 14:11
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The question thus arises the professing Christians that continue to willfully live in sin. Are they saved? This has been the big debate. One could make a good theological case that those that have not transformed in one way or another have not been sealed by the Holy Ghost. If one is truly saved, he will produce fruit because the Holy Spirit is within him convicting him.
Are we saved by how faithful we are? Or are we saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast? Throughout the entire scripture, it declares there is no respect of persons with God and that our righteousness is filthy rags (it actually says used menstrual clothe). The only works that will be preserved are those that God did through us by abiding in him.
This is an important issue as it blasphemy to add to what Christ did. If we are saved by how faithful we are, we could boast about something couldn't we? It is very clear in scripture that all glory goes to God who manifest himself in the messiah! "Overcoming" is the Lord's rewarding of those that were more faithful than others. We aren't saved by how (quantitative) faithful we are. We are saved by believing/living by faith in what God did in his messiah on the cross with no fear of death because we will be resurrected unto eternal life. Not all will be equal in the Kingdom of God. Those who have been more faithful will be given more. We will reap what we sow.
John 3:13-15
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
God gets all the glory. Any form of self-righteousness is a dangerous concept. We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. It's what he has done.
I had a tough time accepting this early on. It feels natural that we have to do a lot of things to get saved. This is a fruit of the flesh. What we need to do is die to self walking in all humility and fear of the Lord letting him work through us with a repentant heart transforming our values to his.
Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
Because Jesus fulfilled the Law because we can't, we are to walk in the spirit producing fruits of the Spirit witnessing the good news.
The Good News is that Jesus has fulfilled the Law because we can't providing atonement for sins and conquering death in the resurrection being saved by the Grace of God through faith. There is a danger about getting back under the law (Read Galatians.)
We are saved to be living witnesses of the Messiah's love by what he can do through us giving everyone a reason for the hope that is within us giving glory to God to all those that ask praying daily because it is source of strength for a Christian.
If a professing Christian is freely living in sin without a transformation in their life, there is a very good chance they have not been sealed by the Holy Spirit by a broken contrite repentant heart toward the Lord of Hosts in Jesus Christ. Repentance is a broken heart in understanding our sinful person and how it has separated us from our eternal Father turning away from the old guy and to him. Evidence for the Holy Spirit in one's life is transformation in life and a change in their person.
The problem with Paul's writings is people teaching them out of context leading the sheep astray. Paul's not preaching willful sin and cheap grace like many believe. He preaches living dead to sin crucifying the flesh daily to produce fruit for the Kingdom of God proclaiming the grace of God in his Messiah - the good news of salvation of the soul.
Fruits of the flesh produce thorns and thistles. Fruits of the Spirit produce fruits for the picking. If we're truly sealed, we will produce some type of fruit. We have put our salvation in the hands of Almighty God.
Pride shows its ugly head in many ways. Spiritual/righteous pride is one of them. It's something to watch out for. The Lord tests the heart. The heart is deceitfully wicked. There is none righteous no not one.
Romans 3:11
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Isaiah 53
1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Put the blood of the Passover Lamb on the door post. Look to the brazen serpent in the wilderness. God did it all, and there's nothing we can add to it. We were created ultimately for fellowship with him. God doesn't want our ritualistic law keeping. He wants our Hearts! He has pity and mercy for our fallen state and has demonstrated his ultimate love toward us. Now we just need to demonstrate our love toward him. Love is sacrifice - demonstrated at Calvary on the cross ~2000 years ago.
If we believe that the Lord of Hosts Jesus dies on the cross in our place to save us, we will not freely live in sin like it's no big deal.
So, I don't believe Paul was an Apostle, and I have good reason. I believe and know it's Elohim who's revealed this to me as well. I won't get into that unless asked....
Ooooookay...I'm going to ask. How do you know, for a fact, that Elohim revealed that to you? I'm asking with an open mind, not to be attacking you. I'd really like to hear your story.
1COR 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1COR 1:11 For it has been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1COR 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you says, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1COR 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1COR 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1COR 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1COR 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1COR 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
Paul can save no one but it would be a good thing to listen to him as he always pointed to Christ as the savior.
Ooooookay...I'm going to ask. How do you know, for a fact, that Elohim revealed that to you? I'm asking with an open mind, not to be attacking you. I'd really like to hear your story.
Everything has already been said, and I'm not really interested in saying anymore. It's highly likely that it's just a bunch of useless quacks anyway.
I've posted some very interesting things on this forum, especially the study in the word thread which pretty much lays it all out in the open. Interesting to see this thread back up though. Anyway.
Be Blessed
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of course!
