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Here we go again...trying to take an ounce of credit for Salvation...Regeneration is bringing life from death...And you misunderstand what common Grace is...One must be made alive in order to hear the Gospel...To hear the voice of Jeshua...In Romans it says believe and be saved...Many are called few are chosen...the Gospel Call goes out to the whole world, so that none have an excuse, however, only those that the Message is meant for will respond...The fact that Hawyaw does not destroy the world now with all it's debauchery is be cause of common Grace...There is a theme of temporal Salvation and Eternal Salvation running through the Scriptures...Temporal Judgement and Eternal Judgement...Jeshua came temporally for the world but eternally for those that have ears...Your theory still puts a small part of Salvation into mans hands...A little credit for making the right decision...Making man master of his own destiny...
To the contrary. There is no merit in believing in Christ. What does Ephesians 2:8-9 say? 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
No, I do not misunderstand what common grace is. I have presented no theory. It is through faith in Christ that one is made alive. And it is through the gospel that one comes to have faith in Christ. And it by means of the Holy Spirit that the unbeliever can understand the gospel.
One last thing. The gospel message is meant for EVERYBODY. Jesus died for EVERYONE so that those who of their own volition, in response to the gospel, come to Christ for salvation will be saved.
God desires that all men be saved (1 Tim 2:4).
Everyone who answers the call is chosen. God invites everyone to be saved, but the invitation must be accepted. Rev 22:17 '...and let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Look. You have been shown several verses which state that being saved is a result of faith. If you refuse to open your eyes to that simple fact, then I am not going to waste my time trying get you to believe what you don't want to believe.
Katie, you're trying to over analyze. Faith is God given. Regeneration is God given. As a result of faith that God gives, we are born again by God, our names written in the Book of life by God, we are decreed Children of God, by God, disciples of Jesus, servants of God. We are declared righteous/ justified in God's sight, clothed in Jesus righteousness, given eternal life, bonded to Jesus Christ, given the Holy Spirit. Its basically a complete package, a total instantaneous change that God makes in us when we are brought to faith.
Prairie,
Scripture tells us that faith comes by hearing God's word. Nowhere do we find faith being given apart from the word. If you believe that, then please provide scriptural support.My argument is that faith comes before we are regenerated or born again. Yes we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit but no way does that happen prior to faith.
I remember Christ using the phrase 'regeneration' when he was promising of abundance in his 2nd advent. Regeneration in that light means re-incarnation- another appearance of a spirit in the world albeit in another body. Re-gen-arate. Simple, why make it more difficult?
Regeneration is the same thing as being born again. I am not making it difficult. The problem as I see it is that people make the claim that being born again comes before you have faith. That goes against what the scriptures say. See the OP.
To the contrary. There is no merit in believing in Christ. What does Ephesians 2:8-9 say? 'For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, that no one should boast.
No, I do not misunderstand what common grace is. I have presented no theory. It is through faith in Christ that one is made alive. And it is through the gospel that one comes to have faith in Christ. And it by means of the Holy Spirit that the unbeliever can understand the gospel.
One last thing. The gospel message is meant for EVERYBODY. Jesus died for EVERYONE so that those who of their own volition, in response to the gospel, come to Christ for salvation will be saved.
God desires that all men be saved (1 Tim 2:4).
Everyone who answers the call is chosen. God invites everyone to be saved, but the invitation must be accepted. Rev 22:17 '...and let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Look. You have been shown several verses which state that being saved is a result of faith. If you refuse to open your eyes to that simple fact, then I am not going to waste my time trying get you to believe what you don't want to believe.
I'm done here!
Rev 22:17 has to do with the body of believers...Verses in and of themselves say nothing...Many people take many verses they think are speaking generally...Then they find verses that seem to contradict those...When you take into account the verses stating that Hawyaw hardens those He wills...And then into account the verse that says that He desires ALL to come to repentance...This is where balance comes into play...Why would Hawyaw Harden whom He will and then desire all to come to repentance?...Unless the 'ALL' coming to repentence is regarding the church, the believer, the already saved for He speaks of desiring all to come to full knowledge of the Truth...So, if one looks at that verse in the light of being directed at the believers...Then the hardening whom He will makes sense...Your Logic and Reason are in want to a certain degree...
Scripture tells us that faith comes by hearing God's word. Nowhere do we find faith being given apart from the word. If you believe that, then please provide scriptural support.My argument is that faith comes before we are regenerated or born again. Yes we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit but no way does that happen prior to faith.
Just read the verse as it is spoken and see what is mentioned first:
Isaiah 59:20
“The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the LORD.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(the gift of the Holy Spirit is faith)
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
Acts 26:20
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Twin,
If you believe that word order is proof that repentance comes before faith, then you should have no problem believing that faith comes before regeneration. According to John 3:36, belief comes before everlasting life in the word order. In Ephesians 1:13, belief comes before being sealed with the Spirit in the word order.
John 3:36He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Ephesians 1:13 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"
If we use your reasoning, then we should confess Jesus before we believe in Him.
Romans 10:9that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Common sense tells us that faith must precede repentance. Repentance is turning to God. If you don't have faith, why would you turn to Him?
No scripture tells us that we get faith apart from hearing the word of God.
No scripture tells us that we are regenerated, or that we are born again before we have faith.
Rev 22:17 has to do with the body of believers...Verses in and of themselves say nothing...Many people take many verses they think are speaking generally...Then they find verses that seem to contradict those...When you take into account the verses stating that Hawyaw hardens those He wills...And then into account the verse that says that He desires ALL to come to repentance...This is where balance comes into play...Why would Hawyaw Harden whom He will and then desire all to come to repentance?...Unless the 'ALL' coming to repentence is regarding the church, the believer, the already saved for He speaks of desiring all to come to full knowledge of the Truth...So, if one looks at that verse in the light of being directed at the believers...Then the hardening whom He will makes sense...Your Logic and Reason are in want to a certain degree...
So much for being done here.
Revelation 22:17 is an invitation to each and every generation up to the Second Advent of Christ, to receive Him as Savior. The water of life is a reference to eternal life.
God hardens the hearts of those who first harden their own hearts. God will bring about circumstances by which what is in a persons heart will be manifested. When a person persists in negative volition, God hands that person over to the consequences of that negative volition. That is how God hardens the heart. A person can persist in his negative volition for so long that he becomes locked into that negative volition and be unable to respond to God's calling. God never hardens the heart of anyone who is positive toward Him.
Psalms 81:11 ''But My people did not listen to My voice; 12] ''So I gave them over to the stubbornness of their heart, To walk in their own devices.
Romans 1:24 'Therefore (because of their unbelief) God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them.'
Hebrews 3:7 'Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, ''Today if you hear His voice, 8] Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of trial in the wilderness.'
Hebrews 3:13 'But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ''Today,'' lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
God will NEVER harden the hearts of those who are positive toward Him. But He will give the disobedient over to the consequences of their continual negative volition.
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