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Yes I could agree with that. But (playing devils advocate) then isn't any willful sin originating from that sin-loving human condition?
If so then we could never reach sinlessness anyway... What hope is there in that?
I don't know about you but knowing I'm forgiven through grace causes me to NOT sin. Who wants to sin when you feel so much better in alignment of that paradise regardless of the reality of your past and future sins.
It is that surety of forgiveness and grace for all creation that Jesus taught ie., Living on earth in the paradise god intended while the world watches in awe.
I don't see the need for the distinction between willful or unwillful sin. I qualify for forgiveness and grace no matter what I do. (I'm, apparently, always going to be a sinner.) That inspires me to get better and better at it (living in paradise). Don't you feel that way? Yet I would hardly call myself a Christian anymore.
I'm starting to get it.
Finn... See the above post. I don't see the need for distinction between willful and ignorant sin. Sin is sin.
The last few passages quoted were about the laws of the Israelites. Laws about cattle etc. If a person was ignorant of the laws it is because they were not from there. So can we say that only non-Christians are able to be ignorant of sin? Obviously Christians have no excuse for their ignorance.
The last few passages quoted were about the laws of the Israelites. Laws about cattle etc. If a person was ignorant of the laws it is because they were not from there. So can we say that only non-Christians are able to be ignorant of sin? Obviously Christians have no excuse for their ignorance.
Hello & Greeing
If you have a time class it one grain sand, by birth. As you grown in life, each grain is a sin, when it reaches a certain point, it maturity and, now it is full-grown. By brith we are conceive, one grain of sin.
Psalms 51:5 (KJV) Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
James 1:14-16 (NKJV) But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Sin does not force itself on the unwilling, but is chosen because of its attractions.
The idea is vividly illustrated by the tragic path of an addict:
A habit once acquired completely controls that person eventually. Full-grown suggests bringing a goal to completion. The idea here is that sin has reached its maturity and has possessed the very characterof the individual.
But saying that death entered the world, and that we will all ultimately die because Adam sinned, is different from saying that God chose to take the life of a 2-day old baby because he/she sinned. Do you really not see the difference?
Every death is because of sin. Without Adam's sin no one would die. That is the point, which some people here fail to grasp (willingly).
Finn... See the above post. I don't see the need for distinction between willful and ignorant sin. Sin is sin.
The Bible uses the word "willingly" for a reason.
Here (below), the words "will continue" refers to "willing and habitual". It says that those who willingly continue to commit the same sins as before are not of God. The desire to continue to live in habitual sin is "dead" is a believer, as they wish to change and follow Christ. They can still commit "accidental" sin, or sins of ignorance, but they will not continue to live in willful sin.
1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
Exactly my point... Some want to argue that the nonbeliever in his ignorance of gods "mark" are fully culpable for missing that mark (sin) and are sentence to eternal torment. While the believers are able to sin ignorantly even though they obviously have no excuse for any ignorance whatsoever.
If you as a believer are ignorant a sin is a sin then what is going on with your listening skills. Isn't god directing your steps?
Yet you condemn a true ignorant: a two day old baby or one who never believed or understood in the first place.
I think the distinction is used by Christians so the can claim to be free of sin (willful) yet not be found to be a liar by claiming to be sinless.
Every death is because of sin. Without Adam's sin no one would die. That is the point, which some people here fail to grasp (willingly).
Every death is by design. Life is change. Life proceeds to maturity and death (transformation). Nothing in the form of matter lasts. Only pure energy is eternal. Our task is to grow and mature our embryo Spirits into pure energy form so that upon the death of our physical matter . . . we can be reborn as Spirit.
Every death is because of sin. Without Adam's sin no one would die. That is the point, which some people here fail to grasp (willingly).
Why do you say "willingly"? You'd have to be a mind-reader to know if someone else was being willingly ignorant or not. Give people a little bit of credit.
I have always said that Adam brought death into the world and that every human being will ultimately die due to Adam's transgression. All I'm saying, and all a lot of other people are saying, is that when a two-day-old baby dies, it is because Adam sinned and brought death into the world. It's not because the baby sinned.
Exactly my point... Some want to argue that the nonbeliever in his ignorance of gods "mark" are fully culpable for missing that mark (sin) and are sentence to eternal torment. While the believers are able to sin ignorantly even though they obviously have no excuse for any ignorance whatsoever.
If you as a believer are ignorant a sin is a sin then what is going on with your listening skills. Isn't god directing your steps?
Yet you condemn a true ignorant: a two day old baby or one who never believed or understood in the first place.
I think the distinction is used by Christians so the can claim to be free of sin (willful) yet not be found to be a liar by claiming to be sinless.
Hardly any non-believer in US is ignorant of the truth. They know the truth, but reject it.
No comment on your "you condemn the babies". It is a complete misrepresentation of what has been said by multiple posters. I think you understand the point, but pretend that you don't see it.
And no comment on your stab at Christians in general. It is another un-truth.
Hardly any non-believer in US is ignorant of the truth. They know the truth, but reject it.
No comment on your "you condemn the babies". It is a complete misrepresentation of what has been said by multiple posters. I think you understand the point, but pretend that you don't see it.
And no comment on your stab at Christians in general. It is another un-truth.
Obviously they reject what they do not understand. Which still means it is a sin of ignorance not at all willful.
Also, It wasnt a stab at Christianity, Just my opinion as I stated in the OP.
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full-grown
