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This is perhaps Matthew's biggest blunder in claiming prophecy fulfillment. It clearly demonstrates that the writer of Matthew's gospel wasn't an eyewitness to the events described (riding on two animals would be memorable) and doesn't understand the Hebrew idiom. While Mark, Luke, and John all have Jesus sending for one animal and riding it into Jerusalem in the usual fashion, Matthew claims that Jesus sent for and rode two animals to fulfill a prophecy.
Matt 21:1-7 1When they had come near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, ‘Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her; untie themand bring them to me. 3If anyone says anything to you, just say this,“The Lord needs them.” And he will send them immediately.*’ 4This took place to fulfil what had been spoken through the prophet, saying,
5 ‘Tell the daughter of Zion, Look, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.’The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them; 7they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them." (NRSV)
A number of modern bibles try to translate this passage differently to avoid the obvious error. Some simply eliminate the word "and" from "mounted on a donkey, and on a colt" but it's there in the earliest editions:
"and brought the ass and the colt, and put their mantles on them, and he sat upon them. "(Codex Sinaticus, 325 AD)
Here is another error, Mark and Luke include the question that the people asked about the colt, "what are you doing untying that colt?", Matthew doesn't.
The Bible can't be trusted when four separate accounts of the same story written by four separate individuals aren’t exactly the same. What we should find is when four separate people take the witness stand in a trial and tell about what they saw, their accounts should be identical using the exact same words and exact same account with no different emphasizes.
Here is another error, Mark and Luke include the question that the people asked about the colt, "what are you doing untying that colt?", Matthew doesn't.
The Bible can't be trusted when four separate accounts of the same story written by four separate individuals aren’t exactly the same. What we should find is when four separate people take the witness stand in a trial and tell about what they saw, their accounts should be identical using the exact same words and exact same account with no different emphasizes.
RESPONSE:
That would certainly be the case if their testimony was supposed to be divinely inspired and not merely human testimony.
However, humanly speaking, if three people testify substanitally to the same usual event, and the fourth gives to a bizarre account, the chances are that the fourth witness is in error.
That would certainly be the case if their testimony was supposed to be divinely inspired and not merely human testimony.
However, humanly speaking, if three people testify substanitally to the same usual event, and the fourth gives to a bizarre account, the chances are that the fourth witness is in error.
It isn't necessary to accept that all the words of the Bible are they way that God would have said them personally in order to accept that the Bible is inspired. If that was the case then we wouldn’t have different writing styles that can clearly be seen. I don’t believe that God took over the writer’s brains and they wrote without thinking like transcribers. God wrote through humans and allowed them to use their own personalities and experiences in the process.
If God inspires me to go and help someone in need, he doesn’t take over my body and mind, I am still me. And just because the writers didn’t write everything exactly like each other doesn’t mean they weren’t inspired to write what they did write.
It isn't necessary to accept that all the words of the Bible are they way that God would have said them personally in order to accept that the Bible is inspired. If that was the case then we wouldn’t have different writing styles that can clearly be seen. I don’t believe that God took over the writer’s brains and they wrote without thinking like transcribers. God wrote through humans and allowed them to use their own personalities and experiences in the process.
If God inspires me to go and help someone in need, he doesn’t take over my body and mind, I am still me. And just because the writers didn’t write everything exactly like each other doesn’t mean they weren’t inspired to write what they did write.
RESPONSE:
On the other hand, can any writing, such as Matthew's gospel, which if full of errors, claimed "prophecies," some of which don't even exist, is not supported in many cases by the other Gospels, really claim divine authorship?
If so, what do we have to conclude about God?
As one church document claimed:
"For all the books which the Church receives as sacred and canonical, are written wholly and entirely, with all their parts, at the dictation of the Holy Ghost; and so far is it from being possible that any error can co-exist with inspiration, that inspiration not only is essentially incompatible with error, but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true." (Providentissimus deus, 1893)
Last edited by ancient warrior; 12-10-2011 at 02:47 PM..
Reason: typo
In Zechariah 9:9....The Prophet of the Lord said ``Rejoice greatly. O daughter of Zion, shout, O daughter of Jerusalem, behold your King comes to you, he is just, and having salvation, lowly, and riding on a donkey, and on a colt the foal of a donkey``....were in Matthew 21 the donkey was a female and the colt was her baby , were a foal is less than three months old still on mothers milk and Jesus would not ride a three month old colt donkey, and he would not take a mother donkey who had a baby without the baby....See contradiction in the Word were there are four gospels of the account of Jesus and prophets were the Lord talks of things to come can be lost in time, different customs and interpretations .....
I checked the Greek on the Matthew text and the translation is essentially correct. Looking at the Greek, it not hard to understand why it says that Jesus rode on them. The plural pronoun is used through the whole text to refer to the mother and colt. It would have been kind of clumsy and inconsistent to change at the very end. The text clearly indicates Jesus rode on the colt, so why get so picky about it. It just goes to show that there are some people are looking for any and every excuse to deny the divine inspiritaton of the Bible.
Which brings up a question. Why are people who are obviously not Christian coming on a Christianity forum, trying to destroy people's faith?. I always hear about how bad Christians are because they do evangelism. If that's true, than isn't it also a bad thing to try to change peoples minds so that they deny Christianity.
This is perhaps Matthew's biggest blunder in claiming prophecy fulfillment. It clearly demonstrates that the writer of Matthew's gospel wasn't an eyewitness to the events described (riding on two animals would be memorable) and doesn't understand the Hebrew idiom. While Mark, Luke, and John all have Jesus sending for one animal and riding it into Jerusalem in the usual fashion, Matthew claims that Jesus sent for and rode two animals to fulfill a prophecy.
Matt 21:1-7 1When they had come near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, ‘Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her; untie themand bring them to me. 3If anyone says anything to you, just say this,“The Lord needs them.” And he will send them immediately.*’ 4This took place to fulfil what had been spoken through the prophet, saying,
5 ‘Tell the daughter of Zion, Look, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.’The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them; 7they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them." (NRSV)
A number of modern bibles try to translate this passage differently to avoid the obvious error. Some simply eliminate the word "and" from "mounted on a donkey, and on a colt" but it's there in the earliest editions:
"and brought the ass and the colt, and put their mantles on them, and he sat upon them. "(Codex Sinaticus, 325 AD)
Matthew didn't make a mistake in what he wrote. What you are failing to realize is there were two entries into Jerusalem. This one [in Matthew] was on the 6th day before Pentecost and was unexpected. cp. Matt. 21:
9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
10 And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?
11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
Mark 11 is on the 4th day before the Passover and is not parallel with Matt. 21. This is the second entry from Bethany [not Bethphage] and was prepared for. cp Jn. 12:
12 ¶ On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass’s colt.
ETA:In Matthew Christ had actually arrived in Bethpage. In Luke He was coming nigh; in Mark they were approaching.
In Matthew the village lay just off the road; in Luke/Mark is was below them, and opposite.
In the former=2 animals were sent for and used; in the latter only one.
In the former, the prophecy of Zech.9 which required 2 animals was fufilled. Christ on one animal and the clothes on the other.
The latter therefore was the great fromal entry of Christ called, The Triumphal Entry which took place on the sabbath before Pentecost.
Last edited by mshipmate; 12-10-2011 at 09:55 PM..
The Bible can't be trusted when four separate accounts of the same story written by four separate individuals aren’t exactly the same. What we should find is when four separate people take the witness stand in a trial and tell about what they saw, their accounts should be identical using the exact same words and exact same account with no different emphasizes.
I suspect you've never attended a criminal trial.
Four reliable witnesses usually give four accounts that are similar but differ in the details. Ask any cop. Sorry. Consider doing jury duty next time it is offered. You'll see what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind over Chatter The Bible can't be trusted when four separate accounts of the same story written by four separate individuals aren’t exactly the same. What we should find is when four separate people take the witness stand in a trial and tell about what they saw, their accounts should be identical using the exact same words and exact same account with no different emphasizes.
[quote]I suspect you've never attended a criminal trial.
Four reliable witnesses usually give four accounts that are similar but differ in the details. Sorry. Consider doing jury duty next time it is offered. You'll see what I mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
I suspect you've never attended a criminal trial.
Four reliable witnesses usually give four accounts that are similar but differ in the details. Sorry. Consider doing jury duty next time it is offered. You'll see what I mean.
The four gospels are written with a different emphasis in mind. Each gospel written presents Christ differently and so therefore different things/events etc are emphasised,
Matthew's account presents Christ as The King; Behold Your King [-Zech. 9:9]
Mark presents Him as God's Servant; Behold Your Servant [Isa. 42:1]
Luke as The Man; Behold the Man [Zech. 6:12]
John presents Christ as God: Behold Your God [Isa. 40:9]
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