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Okay, I am technically a Satanist (no I do not worship the devil or even believe in such a thing. Research LaVeyan Satanism before you jump on me here) but I do attend a Universalism Church. So here are my answers...
1. Do all universalists consider themselves christians?
No.
2. Are there different kinds of universalists? What are they?
Yes. Everyone believes in what they see as the truth. You are free to be yourself 100%.
3. Are some atheists universalists?
Yes.
4. Are some agnostics universalists?
Yes. I am Agnostic in a way as a matter of fact.
5. Do all universalists believe that eternal torment is non existent?
No. I'm sure some believe in a possibility of that outcome.
6. What is unitarian universalism?
It is a Religion that lets you be who you are for what you are. You are free to live life in the best way that suites you. No one judges you at all. We all follow our own paths.
7. Do universalists believe in the trinity?
Some probably do.
8. Do universalists believe that Jesus is deity?
I doubt that they believe it to be "Jesus", but some do believe in a deity of sorts yes.
9. Do all universalists believe in UR?
UR? I'm not sure what that means.
I hope that helps you Katie. Some of these answers may have been given already, but I haven't read all of the responses yet. :/
Just to summarize here there are probably three broad classifications that are called "Universalism". This can be confusing when people talk about universalism, and is part of why I generally don't like the label.
1. Christian Universalism - those who believe all are saved by Jesus's sacrifice on the cross; also called UR (universal reconciliation) or universal salvation through Christ
2. Unitarian Universalism - this was outlined nicely by Hueffenhardt
3. Other - this may include things like "agnostic universalism", Buddhism, those who believe everyone goes into their own paradise after death, etc, without any particular belief in God or Jesus.
As you can see these are very different things, but unfortunately all get called "universalism", which can be confusing.
The first category is what has largely been discussed and debated on city-data in the Christianity forum.
Just to summarize here there are probably three broad classifications that are called "Universalism". This can be confusing when people talk about universalism, and is part of why I generally don't like the label.
1. Christian Universalism - those who believe all are saved by Jesus's sacrifice on the cross; also called UR (universal reconciliation) or universal salvation through Christ
2. Unitarian Universalism - this was outlined nicely by Hueffenhardt
3. Other - this may include things like "agnostic universalism", Buddhism, those who believe everyone goes into their own paradise after death, etc, without any particular belief in God or Jesus.
As you can see these are very different things, but unfortunately all get called "universalism", which can be confusing.
The first category is what has largely been discussed and debated on city-data in the Christianity forum.
I used to think it was "unfortunate" as well, because I felt it was necessary to defend belief in Jesus. But, one has to wonder why Christian Universalists are still so quick to distance themselves from others who are also heading to the same destination. There are 2 paths, one leading to destruction, one leading to life. Why is it so important to CU's to claim exclusive rights to the path to life simply because you think you know what the path's name is? Most CU's would agree that it is the Spirit of God/Christ within that IS the path of love/life. One can follow that Spirit without knowing it's name.
I used to think it was "unfortunate" as well, because I felt it was necessary to defend belief in Jesus.
The reason it is unfortunate is because it leads to confusion and lack of understanding.
Quote:
But, one has to wonder why Christian Universalists are still so quick to distance themselves from others who are also heading to the same destination. There are 2 paths, one leading to destruction, one leading to life. Why is it so important to CU's to claim exclusive rights to the path to life simply because you think you know what the path's name is? Most CU's would agree that it is the Spirit of God/Christ within that IS the path of love/life. One can follow that Spirit without knowing it's name.
I don't necessarily see what you are saying here.
The danger of the confusion and lack of understanding though is some people think "universalism" means you can do whatever you want, no worries.
Just to summarize here there are probably three broad classifications that are called "Universalism". This can be confusing when people talk about universalism, and is part of why I generally don't like the label.
1. Christian Universalism - those who believe all are saved by Jesus's sacrifice on the cross; also called UR (universal reconciliation) or universal salvation through Christ
2. Unitarian Universalism - this was outlined nicely by Hueffenhardt
3. Other - this may include things like "agnostic universalism", Buddhism, those who believe everyone goes into their own paradise after death, etc, without any particular belief in God or Jesus.
As you can see these are very different things, but unfortunately all get called "universalism", which can be confusing.
The first category is what has largely been discussed and debated on city-data in the Christianity forum.
I know Katie wanted answers from us as opposed to looking up universalism on wiki, but I think its entry on Christian Universalism is very informative and should at least be part of the discussion.
And just to be clear, I don't consider Unitarian Universalism to be a type of universalism, as Unitarian Universalism is not a theology or doctrine, but the name of an association of churches/fellowships that got its name through historical factors, not a shared creed. Unitarian Universalism does not have a creed itself and one can be a Unitarian Universalist without unitarian or universalist beliefs.
Last edited by Hueffenhardt; 04-20-2012 at 09:06 AM..
I know Katie wanted answers from us as opposed to looking up universalism on wiki, but I think its entry on Christian Universalism is very informative and should at least be part of the discussion.
Keep in mind not everyone believes every tenet laid out on those pages. For example, the doctrine of the immortal soul - I know several of the Christian Universalists at city-data would not agree with this doctrine, myself included. This is a curious one, because scripture does not say we have an immortal soul, yet it is believed by many Christians. Another topic for another thread...
While we are on wikipedia links, here is another good one that is related to the topic at hand:
The reason it is unfortunate is because it leads to confusion and lack of understanding.
I don't necessarily see what you are saying here.
The danger of the confusion and lack of understanding though is some people think "universalism" means you can do whatever you want, no worries.
I may have misunderstood your intent in posting what you did, I don't know. Rightly or wrongly, what I was taking from your post was the idea that you were attempting to distance yourself and CU from other "brands" of universalism which also emphasize the importance of living a life based on and in love. It just seems very self-contradictory to me.
As Hueff's link points out there are "evangelical Christian Universalists" ... That was what I once was, and it is what several of the posters here on CD are, as best I can tell. That "flavor" of CU holds to a belief that those who currently believe in Jesus and believe certain things about God are the only ones who are being saved from sin and death at this time ... the "first fruits" if you will. They would not accept that anyone who is not a Christian could be following the Way of Life and Love. In other words, belief IN Jesus is necessary to experience being led by the Spirit of God/Love. Imo, that still has an exclusivity to it that is antithetical to the idea that God's love is universal.
I apologize if I misunderstood the point of your post.
I may have misunderstood your intent in posting what you did, I don't know. Rightly or wrongly, what I was taking from your post was the idea that you were attempting to distance yourself and CU from other "brands" of universalism which also emphasize the importance of living a life based on and in love. It just seems very self-contradictory to me.
No, if someone is emphasizing the importance of living a life based on love, then they are following the commandments of Christ. They may just not know it yet.
But because the "universalism" description is apparently so broad, yes, sometimes there is distancing required. Just above here someone said they were a satanist and attends a universalist church. Now again those are just labels - I don't really have a clue what that person was talking about or why one would want to be a satanist. And of course the ideas of worshiping the devil come to mind (even though he said he didn't do that). But I don't want people to be confused and think that is what I am talking about here.
As you said above to saved33, there is only one path, one way. Truth, love, and light. That is what Jesus Christ is. That is why it is Christian universalism. In some ways it is very similar to mainline Christianity. There is only one way - we just believe everyone will get there eventually.
Quote:
As Hueff's link points out there are "evangelical Christian Universalists" ... That was what I once was, and it is what several of the posters here on CD are, as best I can tell. That "flavor" of CU holds to a belief that those who currently believe in Jesus and believe certain things about God are the only ones who are being saved from sin and death at this time ... the "first fruits" if you will. They would not accept that anyone who is not a Christian could be following the Way of Life and Love. In other words, belief IN Jesus is necessary to experience being led by the Spirit of God/Love. Imo, that still has an exclusivity to it that is antithetical to the idea that God's love is universal.
I apologize if I misunderstood the point of your post.
No problem. I also believe there is a first fruits, they are the first ones who have come to understand what this is all about. Most probably won't understand in this life.
Okay, I am technically a Satanist (no I do not worship the devil or even believe in such a thing. Research LaVeyan Satanism before you jump on me here) but I do attend a Universalism Church. So here are my answers...
1. Do all universalists consider themselves christians?
No.
2. Are there different kinds of universalists? What are they?
Yes. Everyone believes in what they see as the truth. You are free to be yourself 100%.
3. Are some atheists universalists?
Yes.
4. Are some agnostics universalists?
Yes. I am Agnostic in a way as a matter of fact.
5. Do all universalists believe that eternal torment is non existent?
No. I'm sure some believe in a possibility of that outcome.
6. What is unitarian universalism?
It is a Religion that lets you be who you are for what you are. You are free to live life in the best way that suites you. No one judges you at all. We all follow our own paths.
7. Do universalists believe in the trinity?
Some probably do.
8. Do universalists believe that Jesus is deity?
I doubt that they believe it to be "Jesus", but some do believe in a deity of sorts yes.
9. Do all universalists believe in UR?
UR? I'm not sure what that means.
I hope that helps you Katie. Some of these answers may have been given already, but I haven't read all of the responses yet. :/
I used to think it was "unfortunate" as well, because I felt it was necessary to defend belief in Jesus. But, one has to wonder why Christian Universalists are still so quick to distance themselves from others who are also heading to the same destination. There are 2 paths, one leading to destruction, one leading to life. Why is it so important to CU's to claim exclusive rights to the path to life simply because you think you know what the path's name is? Most CU's would agree that it is the Spirit of God/Christ within that IS the path of love/life. One can follow that Spirit without knowing it's name.
Whoa! Did you just say there are two paths? One leading to life and one to destruction? Now this is something I would say. But I thought universalists believe there is no destruction at the end of the line. I thought everyone was going to be saved. What am I missing here? Am I misunderstanding you?
Katie
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But I thought universalists believe there is no destruction at the end of the line. I thought everyone was going to be saved. What am I missing here? Am I misunderstanding you?
