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Many would like to forget there is such a thing as God's wrath!
God's wrath makes them uneasy. They are terrified at the bare mention of it, so they block it out of their mind. Some try to believe there is no such thing. They argue that God is loving and merciful, therefore, He couldn't possibly be wrathful.
How do they know He is loving and merciful? Because, HIS WORD affirms it, that's how! That same Bible, which so many love to demean, tells of God's mercy and His wrath. As a matter of fact, it talks about His anger more than it does His love.
If God did not punish evildoers, He would be a party to evil doing. He would compromise with wickedness. He would condone sin. Of necessity, God is a God of wrath. Because God is holy, He hates sin, and because He hates sin, His anger burns against the sinner.
How indescribably awful the wrath of God must be! Like all His other attributes, God's wrath is incomparable, incomprehensible, infinite. And what will the wrath of the Almighty be like when it comes upon sinners? How does one resist or endure the full weight of it? They don't! It will overwhelm them. It will utterly consume them. It will crush them more easily than we can a worm beneath our feet. It will sink them into the lowest depths of hopeless despair. It will be intolerable and unbearable. And yet it will have to be endured day and night for ever and ever!
Reject Christ now, and there is nothing left but WRATH!
Here is a solemn warning against hoping in a second chance after death.
"A man who remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed--without remedy." (Proverbs 29:1)
"How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation?" We shall not! There will be no escape! There will be no second chance!
"Seek ye the Lord while He may be found: Call ye upon Him while He is near."
Today is the Day of Salvation; Tomorrow May Be Too Late!
Katie
Katie, I know you mean well and are very sincere in your 'teachings.'
However you are over looking one very important point in the Scriptures. And that is God knows/understands there are ppl, through not fault of their own, that don't understand the gospel, and therefore don't have the faith to believe and accept it.
How do we know this?
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by *hearing, [understanding] and hearing [understanding] by the word of God.
*hearing, this word means to hear with understanding.
Also what about the ppl who have been temporarily blinded? Remember some of them God Himself has blinded for now. He is not going to punish them for this.
The 'equalizer' is and will be the Millennium where these ppl will have their FIRST chance to hear and understand.
Katie, I know you mean well and are very sincere in your 'teachings.'
However you are over looking one very important point in the Scriptures. And that is God knows/understands there are ppl, through not fault of their own, that don't understand the gospel, and therefore don't have the faith to believe and accept it.
How do we know this?
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by *hearing, [understanding] and hearing [understanding] by the word of God.
*hearing, this word means to hear with understanding.
Also what about the ppl who have been temporarily blinded? Remember some of them God Himself has blinded for now. He is not going to punish them for this.
The 'equalizer' is and will be the Millennium where these ppl will have their FIRST chance to hear and understand.
We must remember, God is always fair.
I agree with you that there are those who cannot hear with understanding. They are the mentally challenged, and those who have not yet learned right from wrong (babies). IMHO, from what I can understand from God's word, these people are saved right now.
I am not a believer of the millenium. I believe when Jesus comes again, that is the end. Then comes judgement. That's mho, and not something I think is worth debating.
I agree with you that God is always fair. He's also just, and He will mete out justice as He sees fit.
God hates sin and will not, cannot tolerate it. Forgiveness comes only by the blood of Jesus.
Those who do not come to the Father through the Son are forever lost, and they are left with nothing but the wrath of God.
Jesus died on the cross to save us. He saved us from God's wrath. We are all terrible sinners Pleroo, and God HATES sin
God hates sin, Katie, not the sinner. Neverending punishment equates to hatred for the person, and wages of sin is death, not eternal hell. Jesus never went to an eternal hell for us. He would still be there if He had. He defeated death and will deliver all from sin and death. I believe that many will experience torment, pain, wrath. Many will experience great loss but God is a healer, Katie, and His love for mankind never dies. He is love, not wrath, or hate. Destruction comes before restoration. God bless and peace.
God hates sin, Katie, not the sinner. Neverending punishment equates to hatred for the person, and wages of sin is death, not eternal hell. Jesus never went to an eternal hell for us. He would still be there if He had. He defeated death and will deliver all from sin and death. I believe that many will experience torment, pain, wrath. Many will experience great loss but God is a healer, Katie, and His love for mankind never dies. He is love, not wrath, or hate. Destruction comes before restoration. God bless and peace.
Hi Lego,
I think your problem, and I say this with all sincerity and respect, is that you can't wrap your mind around a God who can love so much yet at the same time be righteously angered and wrathful.
I think you are thinking as a human. That's the problem.
God hates sin more than we are even capable of comprehending. He can't even look upon it. Until you can understand that, you will never grasp that God can be wrathful.
Lego, He flat out said He who believes in the Son has everlasting life. He who does not believe in the Son DOES NOT HAVE LIFE and the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36
Now what does that mean if it doesn't mean what it says?
Katie, I'm not sure if you answered this in the other thread.
Does God stay angry forever?
Is everlasting life forever? I believe it is. So is everlasting punishment.
I don't pretend to know the mind of God so I can't answer your question. It sounds like you are asking if God holds a grudge. I just know that everlasting is forever and ever and ever and that's how long reward and punishment will last.
The part you are not getting is that there is just one way to get rid of sin, and that is by a blood sacrifice. Jesus was the One and Only perfect sacrifice. He shed His blood so that those who believe in Him will not have to face God's wrath.
There is only one way to come in contact with the blood of Jesus, and that is through faith in Him. By grace you are saved through faith.
If you don't obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, and accept His sacrifice for you, then you die in your sins. You are lost. You are left with nothing but the wrath of God.
There are no second chances to have faith in Jesus, or to repent once you die. There isn't a single example of someone repenting after they die, and Jesus said if you don't repent, you will perish.
Today is the day of salvation. You may be dead tomorrow. Then it will be too late.
Please know I am not talking about "you" personally. I don't know the state of your heart or whether you believe Jesus is the Son of God. I pray that you do and that your name will be found next to mine in the book of life.
Lego, He flat out said He who believes in the Son has everlasting life. He who does not believe in the Son DOES NOT HAVE LIFE and the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36
Now what does that mean if it doesn't mean what it says?
Katie
First it does not say what you have written, katie.
John 3:36 (King James Version)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
You have been told this many times and refuse any but your own (or your bible study mentors') interpretation.
"Believe ON/INTO" (pisteo eis) does NOT mean believe IN the "precepts and doctrines of men" about Him. It means to adopt the inner conviction of Christ's love for us all and "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't.
"Believe NOT the Son" . . . means to not believe Christ and what He unambiguously revealed and taught about the Father. It does NOT mean not believe IN the "precepts and doctrines of men" about Him.
"Shall not see" refers to the state of understanding and knowledge of God . . . for "eternal life is to know God." As long as you do not know God the consequences of that ignorance (wrath is consequences) abides on you.
I would not want to be the one who has to explain to God how they could believe such evil "precepts and doctrines of men" about God and NOT believe the unambiguous example and teachings of Christ about God's true nature and love for us all.
God hates sin, Katie, not the sinner. Neverending punishment equates to hatred for the person, and wages of sin is death, not eternal hell. Jesus never went to an eternal hell for us. He would still be there if He had. He defeated death and will deliver all from sin and death. I believe that many will experience torment, pain, wrath. Many will experience great loss but God is a healer, Katie, and His love for mankind never dies. He is love, not wrath, or hate. Destruction comes before restoration. God bless and peace.
I don't know if that's true. I'm thinking He hates the sin and the sinner. I know He cannot look upon sin. I know you can't separate a sinner from his sin.
I'll have to do a word study on "sinner." I'll let you know what I learn.
Meanwhile if you have scriptures that say God does not hate sinners, please share them.
I'm not sure either way so I won't argue. I just know God hates sin and MUST punish the sinner. This is the reason He sent His Son. Otherwise, we would all be toast.
Jesus is our only chance to be with God. His precious blood washes away all those sins.
Shana, no one ever said God was anger or wrath. But those are His characteristics and He is very capable of displaying those characteristics. Look at what He did to the people in the days of Noah. And Sodom and Gomorrah.
God is love, but He can also be angry and wrathful against those who are unrighteous.
I don't know if that's true. I'm thinking He hates the sin and the sinner. I know He cannot look upon sin. I know you can't separate a sinner from his sin.
I'll have to do a word study on "sinner." I'll let you know what I learn.
Meanwhile if you have scriptures that say God does not hate sinners, please share them.
Katie, did Jesus love you before you "were saved?" God loves the sinner. He sent Jesus to die for sinners. If He did not love sinners, He would not have sent His Only Begotten Son to die for us, right? Jesus died for sinners, the ungodly. Do you agree with this?
Romans 5:
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; [d]though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Jesus walked and lived among sinners, Katie. Sin is a disease and it brings death. But Jesus came to bring life. God loves the sinner who is enslaved to sin.
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I'm not sure either way so I won't argue. I just know God hates sin and MUST punish the sinner. This is the reason He sent His Son. Otherwise, we would all be toast.
Jesus is our only chance to be with God. His precious blood washes away all those sins.
I agree that no one can come to the Father, but through Jesus.
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Shana, no one ever said God was anger or wrath. But those are His characteristics and He is very capable of displaying those characteristics. Look at what He did to the people in the days of Noah. And Sodom and Gomorrah.
I agree with this, Katie.
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God is love, but He can also be angry and wrathful against those who are unrighteous.
I agree with this too. I believe that God displays His wrath and anger for a higher purpose, not to punish people endlessly for finite sin. God punished His people, the Israelites, many times for reason. He wanted to get their attention, bring about a change. He was teaching them about themselves and about Himself. Sinners are said to be helpless, lost, and and in need of a Savior, a deliverer. We need to learn to hate sin, to turn from it, to die to sin, to be delivered and healed, to return to God our Savior, Katie, not punished endlessly. Any punishment or wrath displayed is to bring about a change for good. God is good, Katie. Love does not punish endlessly.
The thing is, most Christians, think that God cannot get all people to see that sin is wrong, that they are lost and in need of a Savior. They do not believe that all people can be reached. They believe that some are too bad, too far gone, are too much in love with sin, will never love God, will always reject God. God cannot reach them. This idea puts limits on the power of God, who has all power. It says that the Creator who created all hearts is not able to penetrate all hearts with His perfect and unfailing love and power. It says that evil and sin are greater than God's power to reach all people. It says that man's free will is greater than the One who made Him, because if the One who made him, who loves Him, and who has all power, cannot convince him that he is lost and in need of a Savior, then who can? Man's will and power must be greater than His own Creator's. So God throws them away because He cannot reach them. There is something wrong with this picture, Katie.
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-05-2012 at 08:08 PM..
Jesus spoke plainly and clearly in John 3:36. His wrath will be upon unbelievers. You can deny that fact all you want, but you can't change it or make it go away. Only those who believe in the Son have everlasting life. Those who do not believe in the Son shall not have life.
Katie
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Originally Posted by katiemygirl
No, it brings me terrible grief because my friend rejected Jesus, the Son of God. Jesus said His wrath would abide in those who don't believe in Him. (John 3:36)
I take Jesus at His word. I believe all of His words.
Katie
Katie,
Correct, Jesus spoke plainly and clearly in John 3:36 as well as in these others. In John 3:16 is the clear subjective mandate God has for salvation:
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, (objective ... which Jesus accomplished)
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (subjective ... which God judges on and determines where one dwells eternally)
Mark 10:15
I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”
Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”
Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
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