The Testimony of One Who Believes in the Victorious Gospel (believer, sinned)
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8 The Lord is gracious and merciful;
Slow to anger and great in lovingkindness.
9 The Lord is good to all,
And His mercies are over all His works.
10 All Your works shall give thanks to You, O Lord,
And Your godly ones shall bless You.
11 They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom
And talk of Your power;
12 To make known to the sons of men [d]Your mighty acts
And the glory of the majesty of [e]Your kingdom.
Zephaniah 3
“Therefore wait for Me,” declares the Lord,
“For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9 “For then I will [a]give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the Lord,
To serve Him [b]shoulder to shoulder.
O glorious day!
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-20-2012 at 12:40 PM..
What scripture and the Lord is saying is that all who are present on the earth will finally come to worship the Lord at the end of the age. It is not saying all who ever were present on the earth, just those who finally serve the Lord on the last day. The resurrection is when a man turns from wickedness and does what is right and just. You are resurrected from a spiritual death to life in the Lord. You will understand when you follow the son of man. It is revealed to those who claim what Jesus claimed and walk in His footsteps. That is why he sent His followers as he was sent, same words ,same message. You won't know until you do it. Those who disobey are under His wrath and confusion.
JN 11:25)"I am the resurrection and the life."
JN 6:44)"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him."
JN 10:2)"The one who enters through the gate is the shepherd of the sheep."
JN 10:9)"I am the gate, whoever enters by me will be saved."
JN 5:29)"All those who do good shall rise to live."
Psalm) "The friendship of the Lord is with those who revere Him and he makes His covenant known to them."
Many scriptures have been provided, Princely, that reveal that God's ultimate plan is to live in all hearts, to restore all to Himself. Maybe in time, God will show this to you in this age.
1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [h]Christ all will be *made alive.
Jesus died for all and He inherits all. (Hebrews 1) God's word will not return void no matter where it has been and where it will be sown.
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Jesus was sent to be the Savior of the world. All do not receive Him at the same time but eventually He gets all.
John 4: 14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
God never fails in whatever He purposes to do, and death is no obstacle as it will be abolished one day. God gives life to the dead.
God bless and peace.
Quote:
"The words of the Lord are upright"
Quote:
Amen.
God bless you always and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-20-2012 at 01:15 PM..
I accept what Paul is saying in the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 and I believe that he is referring to the salvation of all in the verses presented.
1 Cor. 15: 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [h]Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “ All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
*made alive= zoopoieo- primarily used in the NT of raising the dead to life, generally used in reference to salvation answering to the Pauline connection of righteousness and life (Key Word Study Bible)
When all are made subject to Jesus the last enemy to be abolished will be death. Death will no longer operate when all are made alive in Jesus Christ. No one will remain in a second death forever if death is to be abolished, made of no effect. Jesus came to abolish death. (2 Timothy 1: 9-11)
I do not believe that what Adam did when he disobeyed will have a greater effect on the creation that what the Lord did when He died and was resurrected. Do you believe this? No one had a choice in becoming a sinner and no one will have a choice in being made subject to the Lord. Jesus has been made heir of all. (Hebrews 1) We obtained sin and death through Adam and we will obtain righteousness and life in the Lord Jesus Christ. God bless and peace.
Quote:
*made alive= zoopoieo- primarily used in the NT of raising the dead to life, generally used in reference to salvation answering to the Pauline connection of righteousness and life (Key Word Study Bible)
Shana, there's nothing in chapter 5 about salvation. There entire chapter is about resurrection.
And the word zoopoieo has nothing to do with salvation either.
It's from the same root as zoon which means living creature.
And poieo,a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct):--abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do(-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield.
And passo, a primary verb; to "practise", i.e. perform repeatedly or habitually
However poieo differs from passo in that it'is a one time event. That's why the Spirit had Paul use poieo here.
It's, as I already told you, what John speaks of here:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
And Daniel spoke of here:
Da 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
So to try to use 1 Corin. 15 to say God will save all men one time or another goes against the usage of the word poieo
Paul was teaching from Daniel and referring to a one event that happens when Messiah returns at the 7th trump.
1 Cor. 15: 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [h]Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “ All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
*made alive= zoopoieo- primarily used in the NT of raising the dead to life, generally used in reference to salvation answering to the Pauline connection of righteousness and life (Key Word Study Bible)
Cross references with the same verb which refer to more than a physical resurrection:
John 6: 63 It is the Spirit who gives *life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
1 Cor. 15: 45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a * life-giving spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives* life
Galatians 3: 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God ? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart * life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law
1 Peter 3: 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but *made alive in the spirit
Death (in all aspects) itself is to be abolished, made of no effect and this will happen when all are given life. I agree that many will experience a resurrection of damnation. But this is not the final condition of these individuals. It is a temporary condition confined to the ages.
When Adam disobeyed, sin and death entered the creation and has affected/infected all. Jesus deals with both sin and death and reverses what happened when Adam disobeyed. All will be made alive both physically and spiritually in the end.
resurrection- anastasis (a rising up) is not the same as zoopoieo
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-20-2012 at 02:19 PM..
Show me the context of the Genesis passages quoted below that, in any way, hint at or imply that these words should be understood as an allegory for the two covenants.
Galations 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband
Where are the scriptures that teach "context, context, context" as the means for understanding scripture.
Galations 4:22 is not a Genesis passage that you quoted. Galations 4:22 is part of a larger in depth explanation of whom God views as a "child a Abraham".
To see the context that Paul was expanding on, read Jesus' confrontation with the Jews. Jesus said though the Jews were a "children of Abraham" via blood line, that isn't how God determines who are.
As Paul spells it out, heaven is only for those whom trust by faith, not by observing the law. To attempt to do so via the law, then you're a slave who is under a curse.
Princely,
Just in Bible class today, we were looking at Malachi 2-4
Then already, God says that he is "wearied" by what is essentially the message that the universalist's keep saying here:
You have wearied the Lord with your words.
“How have we wearied him?” you ask.
By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them”
You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord.
“Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’
“You have said,....we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’”
People like Eby are hateful liars. They are convinced that the evil will be someday considered them good \ righteous by God.
That eventually God is going to retore them to him. That is just blatantly a falsehood.
God says "you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not. "
What ultimatly happens to the wicked, to those who do not serve God ... not what the Eby and those who listen to him say.
God says:
All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire, ” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them....
Then you [those who serve the LORD, only the righteous] will trample down the wicked;
they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things,” says the Lord Almighty.
These people who are saying that God's ultimate plan is to live in all hearts, to restore all to Himself.. is just outright false (to put it nicely).
All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire, ” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them....
Then you [those who serve the LORD, only the righteous] will trample down the wicked;
they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things,” says the Lord Almighty.
Amen and eventually, they too will be restored.
1 Corinthians 15: 20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. 21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [h]Christ all will be *made alive.
Psalm 145
8 The Lord is gracious and merciful;
Slow to anger and great in lovingkindness.
9 The Lord is good to all,
And His mercies are over all His works.
10 All Your works shall give thanks to You, O Lord,
And Your godly ones shall bless You.
11 They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom
And talk of Your power;
12 To make known to the sons of men Your mighty acts
And the glory of the majesty of Your kingdom.
Zephaniah 3
“Therefore wait for Me,” declares the Lord,
“For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9 “For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the Lord,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder.
O glorious day!
God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-20-2012 at 03:04 PM..
Princely,
Just in Bible class today, we were looking at Malachi 2-4
Then already, God says that he is "wearied" by what is essentially the message that the universalist's keep saying here:
You have wearied the Lord with your words.
“How have we wearied him?” you ask.
By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them”
You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord.
“Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’
“You have said,....we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’”
People like Eby are hateful liars. They are convinced that the evil will be someday considered them good \ righteous by God.
That eventually God is going to retore them to him. That is just blatantly a falsehood.
God says "you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not. "
What ultimatly happens to the wicked, to those who do not serve God ... not what the Eby and those who listen to him say.
God says:
All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire, ” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them....
Then you [those who serve the LORD, only the righteous] will trample down the wicked;
they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I do these things,” says the Lord Almighty.
These people who are saying that God's ultimate plan is to live in all hearts, to restore all to Himself.. is just outright false (to put it nicely).
Yes, one of my favorite verses.
You have defied me in word, says the Lord, yet you ask, "What have we spoken against you?"
You have said, "It is vain to serve God, and what do we profit by keeping his command, And going about in penitential dress in awe of the Lord of hosts?
Rather must we call the proud blessed; for indeed evildoers prosper, and even tempt God with impunity." Then they who fear the Lord spoke with one another, and the Lord listened attentively; And a record book was written before him of those who fear the Lord and trust in his name.
And they shall be mine, says the Lord of hosts, my own special possession, on the day I take action. And I will have compassion on them, as a man has compassion on his son who serves him. Then you will again see the distinction between the just and the wicked; Between him who serves God, and him who does not serve him.
For lo, the day is coming, blazing like an oven, when all the proud and all evildoers will be stubble, And the day that is coming will set them on fire, leaving them neither root nor branch, says the LORD of hosts. But for you who fear my name, there will arise the sun of justice with its healing rays; And you will gambol like calves out of the stall.
Ephesians 1: In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the *summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.
*summing up=anakephalaioomai= to gather together again in one, to reunite under one head (in mid. voice as in Eph. 1) Key Word Study Bible
Psalm 22:
27All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive
God bless and peace
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-20-2012 at 03:32 PM..
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