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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,081,790 times
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the hurdles to their faith, or the areas of religion they see as deficient?
Not someone who has totally made up their mind like a lot here...but someone I can relate to. Someone who wants to retain their faith, but if it turns out to be totally lacking in foundation, not stubbornly ignore the facts in preference of comfort. I really want to find the truth. I believe I'm still a child of God, as hard as it is to believe at times, but even if I'm not 'saved' (although I think I am, not certain I suppose) it would be good to discuss issues with Christians and non-Christians alike.
The first topic, I think, would be how Noah's Ark is totally blocking me from having any genuine faith in the Biblical God. Your understanding of it, and how it could possibly fit into a certain worldview. I guess it's plausibility and whatnot, perhaps as a historical event that while isn't exactly as described in Genesis still has relevance to the rest of the Biblical narrative.
I understand your faith struggle because I've been through some very difficult struggles with faith over the years. Some were caused by parts of the bible that sounded crazy. And some were caused by professing Christians who were some of the meanest people I've ever met. And some were just caused by my imaginations and inclination to dwell in a fearful place.
I don't have any big struggle anymore. I am settled on resting in God's grace. But I just wanted you to know that it is not unusual to have faith struggles. And you are such an honest soul. I hope that you can soon rest in Christ and never again have any worry that God would ever let you go (because I'm certain he will not).
If you can try to imagine the most merciful person you've ever known, the most pure-hearted person you've ever known... that is what Jesus Christ was/is like - full of grace and truth. The Father of us all is pure spiritual light, emanating mercies without measure. All other images of him are only caused by the darkness in our minds. God is love. You can count on that.
Love to you, and grace and peace. We do live in a very frightening world, and a very violent world, but through all these troubles Christ makes us more than conquerors of fear by dwelling on his glorious image. Our work is to keep our minds focused on his glorious image - it is what keeps our path bright and clear. But even when it seems that darkness moves over us - God has not changed.
the hurdles to their faith, or the areas of religion they see as deficient?
Not someone who has totally made up their mind like a lot here...but someone I can relate to. Someone who wants to retain their faith, but if it turns out to be totally lacking in foundation, not stubbornly ignore the facts in preference of comfort. I really want to find the truth. I believe I'm still a child of God, as hard as it is to believe at times, but even if I'm not 'saved' (although I think I am, not certain I suppose) it would be good to discuss issues with Christians and non-Christians alike.
The first topic, I think, would be how Noah's Ark is totally blocking me from having any genuine faith in the Biblical God. Your understanding of it, and how it could possibly fit into a certain worldview. I guess it's plausibility and whatnot, perhaps as a historical event that while isn't exactly as described in Genesis still has relevance to the rest of the Biblical narrative.
...and this...Trimac...is the first step forward toward finding THAT truth...HIS truth...the One in which you do so earnestly and genuinely seek.......God is pleased you are humbled....and not filled with so much pride as to keep you from, one day, truly KNOWING Him and His truth in which He has set a specific standard for you to live by.
Keep seeking faithful seeker of Christ...and you will find Him...in Spirit and in Truth.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,081,790 times
Reputation: 11862
Thank you, Heartsong and Verna, encouraging as always! God knows there've been times when I've felt like giving up, but no, I sense in my heart there's something waiting for me there! And unlike the past it's not just fear, it's something more...
Thank you, Heartsong and Verna, encouraging as always! God knows there've been times when I've felt like giving up, but no, I sense in my heart there's something waiting for me there! And unlike the past it's not just fear, it's something more...
....Amen Trimac...there IS most definately SOMETHING MORE ahead than you have ever known...I pray to God that you find your place IN Him...but this can only be in a place that is called "Straight" and "True".....in the Spirit of Christ.
...and allow me to add this...it is very important Trimac if you are to find THAT which you are seeking....NEVER lose the fear of God...this will keep you.
...blessings.
Last edited by Verna Perry; 05-27-2012 at 07:47 AM..
Reason: ..had to add this jewel of truth...
the hurdles to their faith, or the areas of religion they see as deficient?
Not someone who has totally made up their mind like a lot here...but someone I can relate to. Someone who wants to retain their faith, but if it turns out to be totally lacking in foundation, not stubbornly ignore the facts in preference of comfort. I really want to find the truth. I believe I'm still a child of God, as hard as it is to believe at times, but even if I'm not 'saved' (although I think I am, not certain I suppose) it would be good to discuss issues with Christians and non-Christians alike.
The first topic, I think, would be how Noah's Ark is totally blocking me from having any genuine faith in the Biblical God. Your understanding of it, and how it could possibly fit into a certain worldview. I guess it's plausibility and whatnot, perhaps as a historical event that while isn't exactly as described in Genesis still has relevance to the rest of the Biblical narrative.
There are obviously two 'theories' on the flood. One it was worldwide and second it was 'local.'
Though I'm not 100% sure on this, [who can be? ] I myself believe in the second one. Why?
Well, if you read the account you will see there are some 'key' words to consider.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in *the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
First note it doesn't say in the world, but uses the word erets which means land, ground. Next:
8 ¶ But Noah found grace in the eyes of Yahovah.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just [righteous] man and *perfect in his generations, [contemporaries] and Noah walked with God.
*perfect, tamim, in his generations. This word perfect means without spot of blemish and has to do with his pedigree.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; [debased] for *all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth
*all flesh [except Noah/family]
And again note it says 'earth' not the world.
13 ¶ And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth
So putting that together with this verse:
4 ¶ There were giants [Nephilim] in the earth in those days; and *also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
*also after that, this shows us there was another influx of giants later who lived in the land of Canaan.
So I believe, and again this is just my opinion, the flood was local to rid the earth of the corrupt ppl, the giants and their offspring.
Then the second time the giants/offspring were done away with by Gideon and the 'Sword of Yahovah.'
Jud 7:18 When I blow with a trumpet, I and all that are with me, then blow ye the trumpets also on every side of all the camp, and say, "The sword of Yahovah, and of Gideon."
To find the Biblical God of the Bible an error because of ought against the Lord for Noah flood is a need to forgive the Lord who put a flood on the earth and killed the people of that story .....or it could be illogical to believe a incredible story , so the rest of the bible is at error........ I know that I am saved as Jesus spirit is here and He alway tells me He Jesus has a plan ...... So whether I believe in the incredible story of Noah's flood .or I think it is out of this world to believe , I does not matter to me or the Lord and the prospect of belief in Noah flood or unbelief is legalism , as it only gives a character of God who needed the earth clean To pave a way for Jesus to come .
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,081,790 times
Reputation: 11862
Interesting points mship...yes, the thing I have about is, is well...the Bible simple doesn't mention or barely seems AWARE of cultures outside it's immediate region! If the Noahic flood was world wide, would it not in some way reference far off regions like the Americas, China, Australia?
If it's supposedly 4000 years ago how does that square with civilisations that are supposed to be TENS OF THOUSANDS of years old? I think believing that the Australian aborigines descended from a few Hebrew patriachs is a real stretch.
the hurdles to their faith, or the areas of religion they see as deficient?
Not someone who has totally made up their mind like a lot here...but someone I can relate to. Someone who wants to retain their faith, but if it turns out to be totally lacking in foundation, not stubbornly ignore the facts in preference of comfort. I really want to find the truth. I believe I'm still a child of God, as hard as it is to believe at times, but even if I'm not 'saved' (although I think I am, not certain I suppose) it would be good to discuss issues with Christians and non-Christians alike.
The first topic, I think, would be how Noah's Ark is totally blocking me from having any genuine faith in the Biblical God. Your understanding of it, and how it could possibly fit into a certain worldview. I guess it's plausibility and whatnot, perhaps as a historical event that while isn't exactly as described in Genesis still has relevance to the rest of the Biblical narrative.
Yes, I am those things. Not someone that's hungup on just one denomination and determined to have others "see it my way." I've been a seeker all of my life. Not content to just follow the family like a good, little sheep. Thank goodness, now that I'm in my fifties I can look back and be thankful that in the seventies I was a black sheep, so very different from them though the bonds were strong since they're such a loving and kind family.
Ah, the Ark! Well, since having the internet for 15yrs. I've read some archaeological stuff that claimed....that fossils from ocean level have been found on some mountain tops and things like that, supposedly proving the ark story is likely true.
the hurdles to their faith, or the areas of religion they see as deficient?
Not someone who has totally made up their mind like a lot here...but someone I can relate to. Someone who wants to retain their faith, but if it turns out to be totally lacking in foundation, not stubbornly ignore the facts in preference of comfort. I really want to find the truth. I believe I'm still a child of God, as hard as it is to believe at times, but even if I'm not 'saved' (although I think I am, not certain I suppose) it would be good to discuss issues with Christians and non-Christians alike.
The first topic, I think, would be how Noah's Ark is totally blocking me from having any genuine faith in the Biblical God. Your understanding of it, and how it could possibly fit into a certain worldview. I guess it's plausibility and whatnot, perhaps as a historical event that while isn't exactly as described in Genesis still has relevance to the rest of the Biblical narrative.
When I read questions like yours, Trimac, I can't help but think of this conversation that took place in Rogers and Hammerstein's "The King and I":
King’s Library. King is walking up and down impatiently (waiting for Mrs Anna) when he sees her coming he lies on the floor and pretends to resume reading the Bible.
ANNA Your Majesty Your Majesty Your Majesty is reading the bible? King pretends not to hear and reads more closely. Pretends great surprise.
KING Ah! Mrs Anna. I think your Moses shall have been a fool.
ANNA Moses?
KING Moses. Yes Moses! Here it stands written by him that the world was created in six days! Closes Bible….You know and I know it took many ages to create world. I think he shall have been a fool to have written so. To front What is your opinion?
ANNA Your Majesty, the Bible was not written by men of science, but by men of faith.
It was their explanation of the miracle of creation, which is the same miracle – whether it took six days or many centuries.
I think that this is something that could be said about the Creation, the Flood or many other events in the Bible. I'm sure I'm not the only Christian who doesn't accept every word in the Bible as a literal historical account of events that took place thousands (or millions or billions) of years ago. And yet, I believe in God -- I truly believe that He exists and that He knows and loves each one of us. Yes, I'm committed to my beliefs, but I would be the first to admit that I don't have all of the answers or that I could be wrong about a lot of things. I could even be wrong about the existence of God, but until someone can provide some really conclusive evidence that He doesn't exist, I will continue to believe -- despite the "problematic" stories in the Bible.
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