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Milleniumism theology is very easily refuted ...... look at the failed attempts. (not a complete list and the special dates in blue)
Jesus said:
Matthew 24:23
At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. Matthew 24:26
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
Do they listen? ... Did they listen? .... Are they listening today?
Well, from a Lutheran perspective.......... no, no and no.
Here's the proof: (and it's long btw)
About 30 ad ... <Acts 1:6> the disciples thought Jesus was going to re-establish the earthly kingdom rule
About 50 ad ... <1 Thessalonians 4> people thought they missed the second coming of Jesus (AKA "left behind")
About 66-70 ... Jewish ascetics saw the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66-70 as the final end-time battle
About 90 ad ... Clement 1 predicted that the world end would occur at any moment.
About 100 ad ... the Montanist movement predicted that Jesus would return sometime during their lifetime and establish the New Jerusalem
About 365 ad ... Hilary of Poitiers, announced that the end would happen that year.
About 375 to 400 ad ... Martin of Tours, a student of Hilary, was convinced that the end would happen sometime before 400 AD.
About500 AD ... The antipope Hippolytus, Christian academic Sextus Julius Africanus and Irenaeus had predicted Armageddon at about this year.
Apr 6, 793 ... Beatus of Liébana This Spanish monk prophesied the second coming of Christ and the end of the world that day to a crowd of people.
About 799-806 ... Gregory of Tours calculated the End occurring between 799 and 806.
800 ... Sextus Julius Africanus revised the date of Armangeddon to 800.
848 ... Thiota declared that the world would end this year
992-995 ... Good Friday coincided with the Feast of the Annunciation; this had long been believed to be the event that would bring forth the Antichrist, and thus the end-times, within 3 years.
Jan 1, 1000Pope Sylvester II had predicted the end of the world on this date (fore father of the even number year predictor)
1033 ... Some believed this to be the 1000th anniversary of the death and resurrection of Jesus, and his second coming was anticipated
(fore father of today's 1000 + something else reign number calculators)
1184 ... Various Christians foresaw the Antichrist coming in 1184.
1186 ... John of Toledo predicted the end of the world during 1186, based on the alignment of many planets.
1284 ...Pope Innocent III predicted that the world would end666 years after the rise of Islam.
1346-51 ... The black plague spreading across Europe was interpreted by many as the sign of the end of times
About 1364 ... Jean de Roquetaillade predicted the Antichrist was to come in 1366 and the Millennium would begin in 1368 or 1370.
1504 ... Sandro Botticelli believed he was living during the Tribulation, and that the Millennium would begin in three and a half years from 1500.
1555 ... Pierre d'Ailly this French theologian wrote that 6845 years of human history had already passed, and the end of the world would be in the 7000th year.
(fore father of the 70 weeks theory of Daniel)
1655 ... Fifth Monarchists predicted the final apocalyptic battle and the destruction of the Antichrist were to take place between 1655 and 1657.
1656 ... Some Christians believed the world would end this year as 1656 is the number of years between Creation and the Great Flood in the bible.
1666 ... The presence of 666 in the date led to predictions of the end of the world.
1688 ... John Napier This mathematician calculated the end of the world would be this year based on calculations from the Book of Revelation. (Father of the modern day Millemiumist and JW's habit of changing of predictions )
1700 ... John Napier after his 1688 prediction failed to come true, Napier revised his end of the world prediction to this year.
1700–1734 ... Nicholas of Cusa this RC Cardinal predicted the end would occur between 1700 and 1734.
1780 ... New England residents when the sky turning dark during the day was interpreted as a sign of the end times.
1805 ... Rev Christopher Love (a presbyterian minister) predicted the destruction of the world by earthquake in 1805, followed by an age of everlasting peace when God will be known by all.
1836 ... John Wesley the founder of the Methodist Church, foresaw the Millennium beginning this year.
1863 ... John Wroe The founder of the Christian Israelite Church calculated that the Millennium would begin this year.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Bible Student movement aka JW's //////////////////////////// 1874 ... Charles Taze Russell " founder of the JW's ....The first prediction of the end of the world 1878 ... The second prediction of the end of the world from the Bible Student movement. 1881 ... The third prediction of the end of the world from the Bible Student movement. 1908 ... The fourth prediction of the end of the world from the Bible Student movement. 1914 ... "the battle of the great day of God Almighty… The date of the close of that "battle" is definitely marked in Scripture as October 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874." 1916 ... World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints". 1918 ... Another prediction of the end from the Bible Student movement. 1920 ... Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions......"
1925 ... Joseph F. Rutherford, ...we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth"
**1975 ... In 1966 Jehovah's Witnesses estimated it would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time. These claims were repeated throughout the late 1960s and in 1974 they reaffirmed there was just a short time remaining before "the wicked world's end".
**Oct 2, 1984 ... Another prediction of the end from the Jehovah's Witnesses.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Worldwide Church of God ////////////////////////// 1936 ... Herbert W. Armstrong founder of the Worldwide Church of God told members of his church that the Rapture was to take place in 1936, and that only they would saved. After the prophecy failed, he changed the date three more times. 1943... The first of three revised dates from Armstrong after his 1936 prediction failed to come true. 1972... The second of three revised dates from Armstrong after his 1936 and 1943 predictions failed to come true. Jan 11-21, 1973... Armstrong's fourth and final false prediction.
Dec 21,1954... Dorothy Martin predicted the world was to be destroyed by terrible flooding on this date, claimed this leader of a UFO cult called Brotherhood of the Seven Rays. The fallout of the group after the prediction failed was the basis for the 1956 book When Prophecy Fails.
1967... Jim Jones The founder of the Peoples Temple stated he had visions that a nuclear holocaust was to take place in 1967.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Hal Lindsey ////////////////////////////////////// 1980s... Lindsey book The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon stated ""the decade of the 1980s could very well be the last decade of history as we know it" and that the U.S. could be "destroyed by a surprise Soviet nuclear attack.". The book strongly suggests that the 1980s would see the biblical events of tribulation and end times come to pass. 1988 ... Lindsey suggested that the Rapture would take this year, reasoning that it was 40 years (one Biblical generation) after Israel gained statehood.
Before' 2000
*Hal Lindsey... Lindsay published the book Planet Earth 2000 A.D. in 1994, which stated that Christians should not plan to still be on earth by the year 2000.
*James Gordon Lindsay ... predicted the tribulation would begin before the year 2000.
*Texe Marrs ... stated that the last days could "wrap up by the year 2000."
*Timothy Dwight IV ... President of Yale University foresaw the Millennium starting by 2000.
*Jehovah's Witnesses ... In 1971, and again in 1984, the Jehovah's Witnesses stated the end would be before the end of the 20th century
Jan 1, 2000
*Jerry Falwell ... foresaw God pouring out his judgement on the world on this day.
*Tim LaHaye, Jerry B. Jenkins ...These Christian authors stated the Y2K bug would trigger global economic chaos, which the Antichrist would use to rise to power. As the date approached however they changed their minds
2001 ... Tynetta Muhammad columnist for the Nation of Islam predicted the end would occur in this year.
Apr 29, 2007 ... Pat Robertson in his 1990 book The New Millennium, Robertson suggests this date as the day of Earth's destruction.
May 21, 2011 ... * Harold Camping predicted that the rapture and devastating earthquakes would occur on May 21, 2011 with God taking approximately 3% of the world's population into Heaven, and that the end of the world would occur five months later on October 21.
Oct 21, 2011 * Harold Camping revised his prediction and said that on May 21, a "Spiritual Judgment" took place, and that both the physical Rapture and the end of the world would occur on October 21, 2011.
Sep 29, 2011 *Ronald Weinland stated Jesus Christ would return on this day. He prophesied nuclear explosions in U.S. port cities by July of 2008 as the blowing of the Second Trumpet of Revelation. He later changed the date for the return of Jesus Christ to May 27, 2012.
May 27, 2012
*Ronald Weinland stated Jesus Christ would return and the world would end on this day.
The other unscriptural aspects of Milleniumism are: (summerized from a series of lectures presented at a Pastors' Institute at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in 1974 by the professor Dr. Gawrisch)
[1] Historically been held as wrong
Augsburg Confession alludes to the origin of this error
Luther held the position that Milleniumism is a hersey (sermon preached in 1539)
Calvin wrote that the doctrine of the millenarians is a "fiction too puerile to require or deserve refutation"
[2] Millennialism has long and hoary of failed history (see post #1)
The Jews of the OT and NT were looking for "earthly kingdom rule"
Carlstadt, Zwingli, and tha Anabaptists of the Reformation are the fathers of the what is known as Chiliasm
The Scofield reference Bible is based on refderences from the doctrines taught by John Darby (of the Plymouth Brethern) and Charles Scofield (an American lawyer).
James Gray (president of the Moody Bible Institute) published Scofield Reference Bible
[3] Millanialism therefore is unscriptural in that:
looks for a physical restoration of Isreal and conversion of the Jews
incorrectly makes the rapture into a seperate event
the return of Christ ... claiming a multiple return
the resurection .... claiming a multiple occurance
Hell ... an aberration range from outright denial to universalism
Heaven ...the doctrine of heaven is correlative of the doctrine of hell.
Milleniumism theology is very easily refuted ...... look at the failed attempts. (not a complete list and the special dates in blue)
Jesus said:
Matthew 24:23
At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. Matthew 24:26
“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
Do they listen? ... Did they listen? .... Are they listening today?
Well, from a Lutheran perspective.......... no, no and no.
Here's the proof: (and it's long btw)
Revelation 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Why do people not believe what it says? Upon the Lord's return, Satan will be bound a thousand years. Prior to this period, there will be a first resurrection - one in which the second death has no power. Jesus Christ will fulfill the Davidic Covenant ruling on the Throne of David as was prophesied in the old testament, confirmed to Mary, and re-arrived to his apostles.
I don't know why people feel they have the authority to allegorize this away. The reason why it's important is because there are two resurrections. One for the living and one for the dead. Those alive in Christ will be resurrected and Judged (1 Corinthians 3) prior to the Millennium. Those not redeemed will be Judged at the Great White Throne. (as shown).
The Judgment Day for believers is 100 percent independent of their works. We are either forgiven or not. The faithful receive rewards, the unfaithful suffer loss but saved even so by fire. No works will be weighed in the balance regarding Justification. << so it also helps clear up confusion regarding soteriology doctrine.
Those that believe that this is all symbolic have explain what the 1000 years that Satan is chained is all about. The burden of proof is on their end. No one can point to a 1000 year period of time in which there was righteous judgment ruling with a rod of iron in our history let alone the past 2000 years.
There's a lot to demonstrate that this is indeed literal and going to happen upon the return of Christ. Him literally reigning on this Earth as King for a thousand years in a period in which there will be sin but no Satan.. Some but not all the curse will be removed... after this.. new heavens and new earth where his reign continues forever. Praise God! I can't wait! But I'll have to wait at least a thousand years.
I guess it all comes down to how inspired someone thinks the Word is. What does it say? 1000 year reign. No reason to think otherwise.
This has nothing to do with all the false prophets throughout the centuries. If they are false so be it, but it doesn't disprove the Millennium.
This has nothing to do with all the false prophets throughout the centuries. If they are false so be it, but it doesn't disprove the Millennium.
I could be wrong, but it appears to me as if you and twin.spin are talking right past one another. (If I'm wrong, I apologize and wil be happy to butt out. ). Twin-spin seems to be saying that we are wrong to try to predict the Second Coming of Christ and His millennial reign. I don't think he's suggesting that there will be no milennia reign. I don't believe he's arguing that point at all, but simply stating that only God knows when this is to take place.
I could be wrong, but it appears to me as if you and twin.spin are talking right past one another. (If I'm wrong, I apologize and wil be happy to butt out. ). Twin-spin seems to be saying that we are wrong to try to predict the Second Coming of Christ and His millennial reign. I don't think he's suggesting that there will be no milennia reign. I don't believe he's arguing that point at all, but simply stating that only God knows when this is to take place.
No, look at post #2 in this thread.
I agree w/ what Mike said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81
This has nothing to do with all the false prophets throughout the centuries. If they are false so be it, but it doesn't disprove the Millennium.
I believe in a Millennial Kingdom, but I believe all these various people throughout history have been false predictors and were wrong to even attempt it.
And I especially think we need to ignore and call out those who fail in their predictions, not give them second (and third and fourth and twentieth) chances.
1980s... Lindsey book The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon stated ""the decade of the 1980s could very well be the last decade of history as we know it" and that the U.S. could be "destroyed by a surprise Soviet nuclear attack.". The book strongly suggests that the 1980s would see the biblical events of tribulation and end times come to pass.
1988 ... Lindsey suggested that the Rapture would take this year, reasoning that it was 40 years (one Biblical generation) after Israel gained statehood.
Before' 2000
*Hal Lindsey... Lindsay published the book Planet Earth 2000 A.D. in 1994, which stated that Christians should not plan to still be on earth by the year 2000.
Lindsey was clever enough to know 3 things about Christians:
1. they're astonishingly gullible
2. dramatic hyperbole like this sells books
3. (and most important) they have the collective memory span of a two-year-old
Lindsey was clever enough to know 3 things about Christians:
1. they're astonishingly gullible
2. dramatic hyperbole like this sells books
3. (and most important) they have the collective memory span of a two-year-old
4. The majority believe everything they read, until they no longer believe it.
Cash-in while it lasts, appears to be their motto or guiding principle.
Mike,
The first thing that should be understood about Revelation is that it would serve no purpose to prior generations if it was not applicable to the immediate reader
Secondly, Revelation itself puts the context of the descriptions of Jesus, Satan, time, heaven\hell ect. as symbolic.
We know this because Jesus isn't going to literally look like:
I could be wrong, but it appears to me as if you and twin.spin are talking right past one another. (If I'm wrong, I apologize and wil be happy to butt out. ). Twin-spin seems to be saying that we are wrong to try to predict the Second Coming of Christ and His millennial reign. I don't think he's suggesting that there will be no milennia reign. I don't believe he's arguing that point at all, but simply stating that only God knows when this is to take place.
Brother Twinspin doesn't believe in a literal Millennial reign of Christ for 1000 years on this earth. Somehow this was tied into these false prophesies. These folks may held a mellennial position and used it in attempts to predict foolishly God's return setting dates, but it doesn't destroy the credibility of what the Scriptures say regarding it.
Mike,
The first thing that should be understood about Revelation is that it would serve no purpose to prior generations if it was not applicable to the immediate reader
I disagree. For reasons as pointed out regarding the two resurrections which actually help one illuminate solid doctrine. One resurrection is for the living prior to the 1000 years. The Great White Throne is after the 1000 years for the lost. Looking at the Book of Revelation with this presupposition probably has a lot to do with people willing to allegorize it all.
Quote:
Secondly, Revelation itself puts the context of the descriptions of Jesus, Satan, time, heaven\hell ect. as symbolic.
We know this because Jesus isn't going to literally look like:
Revelation 5
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
I disagree. I believe when Jesus opens the seven seals, he will be doing it with nail pierced hands. There is other scriptural evidence for this such as the disciples not recognizing Jesus upon his resurrection until he broke the bread.
Quote:
Quote:
then literally having:
His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace,
his voice was like the sound of rushing waters Revelation 1:15
eyes are like blazing fire ...
feet are like burnished bronze Revelation 2:18
The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow Revelation 1:14
coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. Revelation 1:16
on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:16
Unless you really think that Jesus literally looked that way when the angels said to the disciples:
" ThissameJesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
Jesus has been glorified. He is the Alpha and the Omega. No man can look upon God without being destroyed. Moses was the beneficiary of God passing before him which resulted in his countenance glowing.
How do you describe God to man? Are there allegories in the Bible sure, but to use the allegories to interpret the literal is poor theology which leads to poor doctrine.
This is why so many are trusting in their own walk to get them to heaven. So many denominations have embraced the Arminian/Calvanistic perspective because of soft hermeneutics, and what a shame that is.
[/quote]
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). Twin-spin seems to be saying that we are wrong to try to predict the Second Coming of Christ and His millennial reign. I don't think he's suggesting that there will be no milennia reign. I don't believe he's arguing that point at all, but simply stating that only God knows when this is to take place.
