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Universalism impugns God character by over emphasizing His love at the expense of His righteousness. Even when a Universalist gives lip service to God's righteousness it is only to say that His righteousness does not oppose His love. And that is correct. All of God's attributes are in harmony.
And that is why God cannot allow His love to compromise His righteousness. God cannot save anyone on the basis of His love. God's love could only motivate Him to provide salvation in a way which would not compromise His righteousness. There is a difference between motivation (love) and the mechanics (judicial imputations) by which God made salvation possible.
Again, God's love was the motivation for providing salvation, but it was God's justice which actually made salvation possible. God's love can only bless. But God's justice can both bless and curse.
God's holiness consists of His righteousness and His justice. God's righteousness is the principle of His holiness, while His justice is the function of His holiness. What the righteousness of God approves of His justice blesses. What the righteousness of God disapproves of His justice must curse. When a person adjusts to the justice of God by responding to the gospel call resulting in faith in Christ for eternal life, God's justice must bless that person with eternal life. When a person fails to adjust to the justice of God by resisting the gospel call then God's justice must express itself by leaving that person under condemnation.
Because of a series of imputations God was able to make salvation possible. First, God imputed Adam's original sin to the entire human race which put all of mankind in the same situation of being in need of salvation. Everyone is born spiritually dead instead of coming into the world being humanly righteous only until they commit their first personal sin and then being condemned as Adam was and in need of salvation. Everyone is born already in need of salvation. Condemnation must precede salvation. Second, God imputed the personal sins of the entire human race to Christ on the cross where He paid the penalty for them. Third, God imputes His own perfect righteousness to anyone who places his personal faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life. God sees His own righteousness in that person and declares him justified. God then also imputes His eternal life to that person.
God requires a volitional decision from man in response to the gospel message which God the Holy Spirit under His ministry of common grace makes understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever. If a person responds to the gospel by believing in Christ, God then imputes His righteousness and eternal life to that person. If a person refuses to be persuaded by the gospel and does not place his faith in Christ then he remains under condemnation (John 3:36). If he dies never having believed in Christ then he must remain under condemnation and be eternally separated from God (Matt. 25:41,46; 2 Thess. 1:6-9; Rev. 20:10-15).
The work of Christ on the cross made salvation available to anyone who will trust in Christ for salvation. God's justice made it possible. But God's justice also requires God to leave in condemnation all who refuse to come to Christ in response to the the gospel call.
Now why does God require a non-meritorius volitional response from man before He imputes His righteousness and eternal life to man?
There are two reasons why.
First, God desires to bring many sons into glory (Heb. 2:10). But God desires a reciprocal relationship with His creatures. That requires volition on the part of man. There is no merit in the faith itself. The merit is in the object of faith which in salvation is Jesus Christ who did all the work of salvation on the cross. Faith or trust in Christ is not a meritorious work on your part, but is a cessation of any effort on your part to earn your salvation. Faith in Christ is a total dependence on Jesus Christ for eternal life.
Second, God requires a volitional response from man in order to resolve the spiritual warfare of the angelic conflict. Man's volition is the most basic issue in resolving this conflict. Satan rebelled and persuaded one third of the angels to rebel with him before the human race was created. Satan and his angels were sentenced to the lake of fire (Matt. 25:41) at that time. But the sentence won't be carried out until the end of human history. All of human history fits in between the time of Satan's sentencing to the lake of fire and the time in which that sentence will be carried out. This means that human history serves the purpose of teaching the angels something. Angels are keenly observing human history (1 Pet. 1:12).
Because of the delay until the end of human history in carrying out of Satan's sentence to the lake of fire, it is probable that Satan protested the sentence and claimed it to be unfair just as Universalists do. Satan probably complained that a loving God could not condemn any of His creatures to eternity in the lake of fire, and this is exactly the same thing that the Universalist does. This impugns God's holiness.
It pleased God to demonstrate to all of creation that the sentencing of Satan was just and that the angels who rebelled were without excuse.
The angels had had the advantage of being in the presence of God. They had had access to heaven and had beheld the glory of God. So God created a lesser being. A being which was both physically and mentally inferior to the angels and which God confined to one place - planet Earth. That being was man.
The point of the various dispensations of human history is to show that if under the different circumstances of those dispensations, members of the human race which is a lower creation than the angels, would respond to the gospel and believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life, than the angels who rebelled had no excuse and that it was just for them to be eternally separated from God.
God loves justice (Isa. 61:8) and the demands of His righteousness must be carried out by His justice.
Since God is absolute perfect righteousness He can accept nothing less in His creatures if they are to spend eternity in His presence. God's plan calls for man to use his God given volition to respond to God's call through the gospel. This again is both because God desires a reciprocal relationship with His creatures, and because man was created to resolve the angelic conflict. This is why man must respond to God's offer of salvation before he dies. God cannot alter His pre-determined plan (Acts 2:23). His plan calls for man to make a volitional choice with regard to the gospel. The consequence of rejecting the call of the gospel is the same punishment as the fallen angels were sentenced to. Eternal separation from God in the lake of fire (Matt. 25:41, 46; Rev. 20:10-15).
The angelic conflict is the result of prehistoric creatures being in opposition to God. It began with the independence and rebellion of the one who was the Messiah's angel, Satan, and it continues throughout human history until the end of the Millennium. The angelic conflict answers many basic questions about life, such as - "Why was man created? Why sin? Why is there chaos on earth? Why is there so much suffering? Why did our Lord Jesus Christ have to go to the cross?" Mankind was created as an inferior creation to angels to resolve the angelic conflict, as witnesses for the justice, righteousness, and love of God. The Lord Jesus Christ won the strategic victory in the angelic conflict through His work on the cross. As Church-age believers, we have the opportunity to join in the tactical victory of the angelic conflict. By advancing to spiritual maturity, we can glorify God in the angelic conflict as witnesses to His perfect character and nature, and have lasting impact as invisible heroes.
>>> The Angelic Conflict - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ
So basically God lost control of His creation?....hmmm..all this time I thought He was all powerful.
Because of this 'miscalculation', the vast majority of His creation will reside in a place of torture...forever.
Don't you see the irony Mike....his very spokesmen preaching an angry and vindictive God. You guys reversed the roles between God and Satan.
If your right Mike, lets face the facts...the devil WON.
Score: Devil - 12,386,212,012 souls in hell
God - 554,122,221 souls in heaven
Not even close.
To the contrary. God is always in complete control of His creation. The angelic conflict which takes place during human history is actuallly Satan's appeal trial in which he is attempting to have his sentence to the lake of fire overturned. He is permitted a certain amount of latitude by God in making his appeal. He is unable to step outside the bounderies which God has established. For instance, the particular group of fallen angels who were responsible for the Genesis 6 incident which resulted in the Nephilim stepped out of bounds and as a result they are confined to Tartarus (2 Pet. 2:4) and are no longer a part of the angelic conflict.
This has nothing to do with God being angry. It is a matter of God's holiness being violated and justice being enacted so as not to compromise His character. God is every bit as much a God of justice as He is of love. He can not compromise His holiness as that would make Him less than perfect, and it is impossible for God to be anything other than perfect.
God knew that when He gave the angels volition a certain number of them would rebel. But in order for volition to exist God had to allow the rebellion to happen. The same with the creation and fall of man. God did not desire for the angelic rebellion or the fall of man to happen, but He had to allow it to happen in order for volition to exist and function. God's plan took angelic and human volition into account and God maintains Sovereign control over the events in history even while permitting human volition to function. But God also decreed consequences for volitional decisions. That means that those who die without trusting in Christ for eternal life will be eternally separated from God.
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-21-2012 at 08:16 PM..
I'll simply post the article "the lake of fire" series from L. Ray Smith, that utterly destroys eternal torment theology (using scripture & not any religious tradition, amazingly enough) and a number of other false doctrines it depends upon.
God open up some of your eyes I pray, and free you from this terrible bondage espoused by many deceivers and enemies of the truth that post on this forum, teaching that God will eventually torture the majority of His creation that He created in the first place and they teach FAILED to do it right the first time. You know not of what you SPEAK, more less what you DO to blaspheme the goodness and capability of God.
For you despisers of the Word of God, I'll leave you to God, who is more than capable of healing, converting and ultimately saving you from your sins and blasphemies (unlike your tiny God who cannot) - I joyfully await that moment, and it won't be at your choosing because GOD chooses when, not you.
I have nothing but love for you, being blinded by God at this time can hardly be attributed to you, but I am just human after-all and I get frustrated that your love is sooo small, sooo exclusive, soooo utterly useless, sooo diminished, sooo selfish, but love is sometimes TOUGH love, and God's LOVE is the toughest of all, so I look forward to a complete reconciliation with you at some later date, but I realize that for many (actually MOST) people in this world it will be after death. Your tiny God can't do anything for us after human mortal death, as you've made it clear, but mine CAN and mine WILL. He's already made that promise abundantly clear if you READ THE WORDS in front of you and leave behind your traditions of men. Which most won't. Both religious and secular traditions will usually win out.
I'll simply post the article "the lake of fire" series from L. Ray Smith, that utterly destroys eternal torment theology (using scripture & not any religious tradition, amazingly enough) and a number of other false doctrines it depends upon.
God open up some of your eyes I pray, and free you from this terrible bondage espoused by many deceivers and enemies of the truth that post on this forum, teaching that God will eventually torture the majority of His creation that He created in the first place and they teach FAILED to do it right the first time. You know not of what you SPEAK, more less what you DO to blaspheme the goodness and capability of God.
For you despisers of the Word of God, I'll leave you to God, who is more than capable of healing, converting and ultimately saving you from your sins and blasphemies (unlike your tiny God who cannot) - I joyfully await that moment, and it won't be at your choosing because GOD chooses when, not you.
I have nothing but love for you, being blinded by God at this time can hardly be attributed to you, but I am just human after-all and I get frustrated that your love is sooo small, sooo exclusive, soooo utterly useless, sooo diminished, sooo selfish, but love is sometimes TOUGH love, and God's LOVE is the toughest of all, so I look forward to a complete reconciliation with you at some later date, but I realize that for many (actually MOST) people in this world it will be after death. Your tiny God can't do anything for us after human mortal death, as you've made it clear, but mine CAN and mine WILL. He's already made that promise abundantly clear if you READ THE WORDS in front of you and leave behind your traditions of men. Which most won't. Both religious and secular traditions will usually win out.
Universalism impugns God character by over emphasizing His love at the expense of His righteousness. Even when a Universalist gives lip service to God's righteousness it is only to say that His righteousness does not oppose His love. And that is correct. All of God's attributes are in harmony.
And that is why God cannot allow His love to compromise His righteousness. God cannot save anyone on the basis of His love. God's love could only motivate Him to provide salvation in a way which would not compromise His righteousness. There is a difference between motivation (love) and the mechanics (judicial imputations) by which God made salvation possible.
Again, God's love was the motivation for providing salvation, but it was God's justice which actually made salvation possible. God's love can only bless. But God's justice can both bless and curse.
God's holiness consists of His righteousness and His justice. God's righteousness is the principle of His holiness, while His justice is the function of His holiness. What the righteousness of God approves of His justice blesses. What the righteousness of God disapproves of His justice must curse. When a person adjusts to the justice of God by responding to the gospel call resulting in faith in Christ for eternal life, God's justice must bless that person with eternal life. When a person fails to adjust to the justice of God by resisting the gospel call then God's justice must express itself by leaving that person under condemnation.
Because of a series of imputations God was able to make salvation possible. First, God imputed Adam's original sin to the entire human race which put all of mankind in the same situation of being in need of salvation. Everyone is born spiritually dead instead of coming into the world being humanly righteous only until they commit their first personal sin and then being condemned as Adam was and in need of salvation. Everyone is born already in need of salvation. Condemnation must precede salvation. Second, God imputed the personal sins of the entire human race to Christ on the cross where He paid the penalty for them. Third, God imputes His own perfect righteousness to anyone who places his personal faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life. God sees His own righteousness in that person and declares him justified. God then also imputes His eternal life to that person.
God requires a volitional decision from man in response to the gospel message which God the Holy Spirit under His ministry of common grace makes understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever. If a person responds to the gospel by believing in Christ, God then imputes His righteousness and eternal life to that person. If a person refuses to be persuaded by the gospel and does not place his faith in Christ then he remains under condemnation (John 3:36). If he dies never having believed in Christ then he must remain under condemnation and be eternally separated from God (Matt. 25:41,46; 2 Thess. 1:6-9; Rev. 20:10-15).
The work of Christ on the cross made salvation available to anyone who will trust in Christ for salvation. God's justice made it possible. But God's justice also requires God to leave in condemnation all who refuse to come to Christ in response to the the gospel call.
Now why does God require a non-meritorius volitional response from man before He imputes His righteousness and eternal life to man?
There are two reasons why.
First, God desires to bring many sons into glory (Heb. 2:10). But God desires a reciprocal relationship with His creatures. That requires volition on the part of man. There is no merit in the faith itself. The merit is in the object of faith which in salvation is Jesus Christ who did all the work of salvation on the cross. Faith or trust in Christ is not a meritorious work on your part, but is a cessation of any effort on your part to earn your salvation. Faith in Christ is a total dependence on Jesus Christ for eternal life.
Second, God requires a volitional response from man in order to resolve the spiritual warfare of the angelic conflict. Man's volition is the most basic issue in resolving this conflict. Satan rebelled and persuaded one third of the angels to rebel with him before the human race was created. Satan and his angels were sentenced to the lake of fire (Matt. 25:41) at that time. But the sentence won't be carried out until the end of human history. All of human history fits in between the time of Satan's sentencing to the lake of fire and the time in which that sentence will be carried out. This means that human history serves the purpose of teaching the angels something. Angels are keenly observing human history (1 Pet. 1:12).
Because of the delay until the end of human history in carrying out of Satan's sentence to the lake of fire, it is probable that Satan protested the sentence and claimed it to be unfair just as Universalists do. Satan probably complained that a loving God could not condemn any of His creatures to eternity in the lake of fire, and this is exactly the same thing that the Universalist does. This impugns God's holiness.
It pleased God to demonstrate to all of creation that the sentencing of Satan was just and that the angels who rebelled were without excuse.
The angels had had the advantage of being in the presence of God. They had had access to heaven and had beheld the glory of God. So God created a lesser being. A being which was both physically and mentally inferior to the angels and which God confined to one place - planet Earth. That being was man.
The point of the various dispensations of human history is to show that if under the different circumstances of those dispensations, members of the human race which is a lower creation than the angels, would respond to the gospel and believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life, than the angels who rebelled had no excuse and that it was just for them to be eternally separated from God.
God loves justice (Isa. 61:8) and the demands of His righteousness must be carried out by His justice.
Since God is absolute perfect righteousness He can accept nothing less in His creatures if they are to spend eternity in His presence. God's plan calls for man to use his God given volition to respond to God's call through the gospel. This again is both because God desires a reciprocal relationship with His creatures, and because man was created to resolve the angelic conflict. This is why man must respond to God's offer of salvation before he dies. God cannot alter His pre-determined plan (Acts 2:23). His plan calls for man to make a volitional choice with regard to the gospel. The consequence of rejecting the call of the gospel is the same punishment as the fallen angels were sentenced to. Eternal separation from God in the lake of fire (Matt. 25:41, 46; Rev. 20:10-15).
The angelic conflict is the result of prehistoric creatures being in opposition to God. It began with the independence and rebellion of the one who was the Messiah's angel, Satan, and it continues throughout human history until the end of the Millennium. The angelic conflict answers many basic questions about life, such as - "Why was man created? Why sin? Why is there chaos on earth? Why is there so much suffering? Why did our Lord Jesus Christ have to go to the cross?" Mankind was created as an inferior creation to angels to resolve the angelic conflict, as witnesses for the justice, righteousness, and love of God. The Lord Jesus Christ won the strategic victory in the angelic conflict through His work on the cross. As Church-age believers, we have the opportunity to join in the tactical victory of the angelic conflict. By advancing to spiritual maturity, we can glorify God in the angelic conflict as witnesses to His perfect character and nature, and have lasting impact as invisible heroes.
>>> The Angelic Conflict - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ
A man of faith is changed by by what he considers. When I read your posts and the posts of all the other evangelical eternal torment belevers, one thing is mightily clear why you cannot and refuse to consider that He IS Savior of All, especially those that are believing,and that is you are ever mindful of sin and cannot see beyond considering anything but sin( the sin of others and the sin in your own heart that condemns you). Sin in your minds over abounds over grace,sin is ever before your eyes,causes you to judge sinners, causes you to condemn sinners, causes you to be hard on them instead of compassionate towards them, and then dismisses them to the eternal torment you have created in your mind, because that is where your own condemning heart tells you will end up, dying in the state of sin. So you invented once saved always saved to
reassure your own condemning hearts that you will still make heaven, even though you still sin. You have made salvation about avoiding hell(nowhere in the scriptures is this taught)and going to heaven, and OSAS entitles you to go to heaven( unchanged still sinning in thought and deed, with lips service of I believe in Jesus and the bible is the word of God),while the sinner who knows not God is cast into eternal hell.
This form of Christianity ^^^^^ is the most repulsive religion in existence. Abraham a man of faith did not stagger in his walk with God because he refused to consider what he was in the flesh, he set is eyes upon the things that are not as though they were( I AM a father of many nations) this( what he was considering)is what changed him from Abram into Abraham . Why am I saying this ? , because it is clear that you who refuse to consider all will be saved are not men of faith, remain in the sin of unbelief,making the promise of God of no effect in your own lives and void of faith for others to come to faith, all you have is a sin conscious salvation which when broken down is "stop sinning and you will go to heaven, but if you do struggle with sin not to worry, for as long as you have said you believe in Jesus, you will still make it there, because once you have said I believe in Jesus you are always saved.
Universalism impugns God character by over emphasizing His love at the expense of His righteousness. Even when a Universalist gives lip service to God's righteousness it is only to say that His righteousness does not oppose His love. And that is correct. All of God's attributes are in harmony.
And that is why God cannot allow His love to compromise His righteousness. God cannot save anyone on the basis of His love. God's love could only motivate Him to provide salvation in a way which would not compromise His righteousness. There is a difference between motivation (love) and the mechanics (judicial imputations) by which God made salvation possible.
Again, God's love was the motivation for providing salvation, but it was God's justice which actually made salvation possible. God's love can only bless. But God's justice can both bless and curse.
God's holiness consists of His righteousness and His justice. God's righteousness is the principle of His holiness, while His justice is the function of His holiness. What the righteousness of God approves of His justice blesses. What the righteousness of God disapproves of His justice must curse. When a person adjusts to the justice of God by responding to the gospel call resulting in faith in Christ for eternal life, God's justice must bless that person with eternal life. When a person fails to adjust to the justice of God by resisting the gospel call then God's justice must express itself by leaving that person under condemnation.
Because of a series of imputations God was able to make salvation possible. First, God imputed Adam's original sin to the entire human race which put all of mankind in the same situation of being in need of salvation. Everyone is born spiritually dead instead of coming into the world being humanly righteous only until they commit their first personal sin and then being condemned as Adam was and in need of salvation. Everyone is born already in need of salvation. Condemnation must precede salvation. Second, God imputed the personal sins of the entire human race to Christ on the cross where He paid the penalty for them. Third, God imputes His own perfect righteousness to anyone who places his personal faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life. God sees His own righteousness in that person and declares him justified. God then also imputes His eternal life to that person.
God requires a volitional decision from man in response to the gospel message which God the Holy Spirit under His ministry of common grace makes understandable to the spiritually dead unbeliever. If a person responds to the gospel by believing in Christ, God then imputes His righteousness and eternal life to that person. If a person refuses to be persuaded by the gospel and does not place his faith in Christ then he remains under condemnation (John 3:36). If he dies never having believed in Christ then he must remain under condemnation and be eternally separated from God (Matt. 25:41,46; 2 Thess. 1:6-9; Rev. 20:10-15).
The work of Christ on the cross made salvation available to anyone who will trust in Christ for salvation. God's justice made it possible. But God's justice also requires God to leave in condemnation all who refuse to come to Christ in response to the the gospel call.
Now why does God require a non-meritorius volitional response from man before He imputes His righteousness and eternal life to man?
There are two reasons why.
First, God desires to bring many sons into glory (Heb. 2:10). But God desires a reciprocal relationship with His creatures. That requires volition on the part of man. There is no merit in the faith itself. The merit is in the object of faith which in salvation is Jesus Christ who did all the work of salvation on the cross. Faith or trust in Christ is not a meritorious work on your part, but is a cessation of any effort on your part to earn your salvation. Faith in Christ is a total dependence on Jesus Christ for eternal life.
Second, God requires a volitional response from man in order to resolve the spiritual warfare of the angelic conflict. Man's volition is the most basic issue in resolving this conflict. Satan rebelled and persuaded one third of the angels to rebel with him before the human race was created. Satan and his angels were sentenced to the lake of fire (Matt. 25:41) at that time. But the sentence won't be carried out until the end of human history. All of human history fits in between the time of Satan's sentencing to the lake of fire and the time in which that sentence will be carried out. This means that human history serves the purpose of teaching the angels something. Angels are keenly observing human history (1 Pet. 1:12).
Because of the delay until the end of human history in carrying out of Satan's sentence to the lake of fire, it is probable that Satan protested the sentence and claimed it to be unfair just as Universalists do. Satan probably complained that a loving God could not condemn any of His creatures to eternity in the lake of fire, and this is exactly the same thing that the Universalist does. This impugns God's holiness.
It pleased God to demonstrate to all of creation that the sentencing of Satan was just and that the angels who rebelled were without excuse.
The angels had had the advantage of being in the presence of God. They had had access to heaven and had beheld the glory of God. So God created a lesser being. A being which was both physically and mentally inferior to the angels and which God confined to one place - planet Earth. That being was man.
The point of the various dispensations of human history is to show that if under the different circumstances of those dispensations, members of the human race which is a lower creation than the angels, would respond to the gospel and believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life, than the angels who rebelled had no excuse and that it was just for them to be eternally separated from God.
God loves justice (Isa. 61:8) and the demands of His righteousness must be carried out by His justice.
Since God is absolute perfect righteousness He can accept nothing less in His creatures if they are to spend eternity in His presence. God's plan calls for man to use his God given volition to respond to God's call through the gospel. This again is both because God desires a reciprocal relationship with His creatures, and because man was created to resolve the angelic conflict. This is why man must respond to God's offer of salvation before he dies. God cannot alter His pre-determined plan (Acts 2:23). His plan calls for man to make a volitional choice with regard to the gospel. The consequence of rejecting the call of the gospel is the same punishment as the fallen angels were sentenced to. Eternal separation from God in the lake of fire (Matt. 25:41, 46; Rev. 20:10-15).
The angelic conflict is the result of prehistoric creatures being in opposition to God. It began with the independence and rebellion of the one who was the Messiah's angel, Satan, and it continues throughout human history until the end of the Millennium. The angelic conflict answers many basic questions about life, such as - "Why was man created? Why sin? Why is there chaos on earth? Why is there so much suffering? Why did our Lord Jesus Christ have to go to the cross?" Mankind was created as an inferior creation to angels to resolve the angelic conflict, as witnesses for the justice, righteousness, and love of God. The Lord Jesus Christ won the strategic victory in the angelic conflict through His work on the cross. As Church-age believers, we have the opportunity to join in the tactical victory of the angelic conflict. By advancing to spiritual maturity, we can glorify God in the angelic conflict as witnesses to His perfect character and nature, and have lasting impact as invisible heroes.
>>> The Angelic Conflict - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ
Good post
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