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Just to clarify Eusebius's point, he's talking about the part where the Father, Word and Holy Spirit testify in heaven.
For example, the passage is most likely:
Quote:
6 This is the one who came by water and blood —Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
and NOT
Quote:
6 This is the one who came by water and blood —Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
I wonder if in another hundred years this won't even be footnoted anymore...
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
I dont understand water and blood and the spirit, water and blood on earth.
Jesus Christ came by the water and the blood. The water, blood, and Spirit bear witness on earth that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Water - This referes to when Jesus was baptized by John in the water (Jordan River).
Matthew 3:16-17 - After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
There was a witness direct from God that Jesus was the Son of God when Jesus came out of the water.
Blood - Jesus was contemplating His death when the Father spoke.
John 12:27-28 - "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, `Father, save Me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour. "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."
And when Jesus died, look at the supernatural occurences - the darkness, the earthquake, the tearing of the temple veil, the appearances of deceased saints - this led to this response.
Matthew 27:54 - Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!"
The blood (death of Christ) was an earthly witness that Jesus is the Son of God.
Spirit - The Holy Spirit is a witness that resides within us that Jesus is the Son of God.
John 15:26 - "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
Romans 8:16 - The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
So the water, blood, and Spirit are all earthly witnesses that Jesus Christ is indeed the Son of God.
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
I dont understand water and blood and the spirit, water and blood on earth.
You mean 1 John 5:8...There is no 6 in 1 John...
Well, one needs the Spirit dwelling in them AND Baptism for remission of sins AND washing in the Blood or covered by the Blood of the Sacrifice in order to be saved (all three are needed, not just one or two of them)...The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost being one was not in many Greek manuscipts...It is a suspected interpolation around the turn of the 4th into the 5th century...
Well, one needs the Spirit dwelling in them AND Baptism for remission of sins AND washing in the Blood or covered by the Blood of the Sacrifice in order to be saved (all three are needed, not just one or two of them)...The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost being one was not in many Greek manuscipts...It is a suspected interpolation around the turn of the 4th into the 5th century...
You know - the part about the Father, Son, and Spirit does not change or contradict anything.
The immediate context is about evidence and testimony, not salvation. The Father, Son, and Spirit are the Ones who testify in heaven about Jesus being the Son of God - that is true whether it's in the text or not. The water, blood, and Spirit are the earthly testimonies.
You know - the part about the Father, Son, and Spirit does not change or contradict anything.
The immediate context is about evidence and testimony, not salvation. The Father, Son, and Spirit are the Ones who testify in heaven about Jesus being the Son of God - that is true whether it's in the text or not. The water, blood, and Spirit are the earthly testimonies.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Heaven as One is an interpolation...
1Jn 5:7 For there are three bearing witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
Notice the greyed out words...Indicative of a suspected interpolation that was not in the original manuscript...I would say that if it were a common belief of the early church then it would have been mentioned in this kind of detail in other letters written by other Apostles
1Jn 5:7 because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these--the three--are one;
1Jn 5:8 and three are who are testifying in the earth , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one.
Notice it also in the Young's Literal translation...
If, as I've noted, it is not an interpolation, then why is it not stated elsewhere in the letters of the Apostles as explicitly as it is here?...In Young's if you take those words out, there is still flow to it:
1Jn 5:7 because three are who are testifying, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one.
reading the Greek, I see that the Greek conforms with the YLT...Not so much the LITV...
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