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No Katzpur. While God is in heaven, He is everywhere present, just as the passages I provided show. God is Spirit and is everywhere present. The whole of God not only fills all the Universe, but infinity as well. The omnipresence of God does not mean that God is His creation. That is the false teaching of Pantheism. God is separate and distinct from His creation, but is everywhere present in His creation.
I would say that the reason you as a Mormon believe that God is only in heaven is that you believe that God the Father has a body, which of necessity would limit Him to one point in space. But again, God is Spirit and is not limited to one place.
The Bible does indeed say that God is everywhere. God is omnipresent. Mormons, in view of the following passages, please explain why you believe that the Bible does not say that God is everywhere. Hopefully, since the thread title is, 'Mormon's please explain this,' my request that you explain this keeps the thread on topic.
The Father: Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off? 24] "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD. "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD.
God the Son: Matt. 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Jesus Christ as God is with, and indwells every Church Age believer. John 14:20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
God the Holy Spirit: Psa. 139:7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8] If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
There is also some other NT references:
Matthew 18:20
"For where twoorthree come together in my name, there am I with them.”
Ephesians 4:10
"He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe."
Jesus claims in Matthew 18 that he is omnipresent.. the same claim that only God is to have. At this very moment, just how many places are there two or three gathered right now?
And what to do with what was revealed in Ephesians ... ascended higher than all the heavens, and to fill the whole universe?
No Katzpur. While God is in heaven, He is everywhere present, just as the passages I provided show. God is Spirit and is everywhere present. The whole of God not only fills all the Universe, but infinity as well. The omnipresence of God does not mean that God is His creation. That is the false teaching of Pantheism. God is separate and distinct from His creation, but is everywhere present in His creation.
Suit yourself, Mike. I disagree with your interpretation. As far as I'm concerned, God is in Heaven, exactly where the Bible says He is. His power and influence, however, can be felt everywhere He wishes them to.
Quote:
I would say that the reason you as a Mormon believe that God is only in heaven is that you believe that God the Father has a body, which of necessity would limit Him to one point in space. But again, God is Spirit and is not limited to one place.
A spirit is merely a life force. God, therefore, is the source of all life.
Now if you'll excuse me, I see no point in my repeating myself yet again.
I think that Kolob is just putting a name to a place most other religions already have a name for. Other Christians call it Heaven, Buddhists call the highest place of enlightenment Nirvana, Judaism calls it Olam Haba, the Norse called it Valhalla, Islam calls it Jannat, Wiccans call it the Summerland, etc. The idea of Kolob doesn't sound so far-fetched to me when I compare it to other religions.
Except that Kolob isn't the Mormon name for Heaven. It's simply the name of a star mentioned in "The Pearl of Great Price."
Suit yourself, Mike. I disagree with your interpretation. As far as I'm concerned, God is in Heaven, exactly where the Bible says He is. His power and influence, however, can be felt everywhere He wishes them to. Now if you'll excuse me, I see no point in my repeating myself yet again.
You are free to believe whatever you wish. But your belief that God is not omnipresent is in direct contradiction of the Bible. It is not a matter of interpretation.
You are free to believe whatever you wish. But your belief that God is not omnipresent is in direct contradiction of the Bible. It is not a matter of interpretation.
I would say that the reason you as a Mormon believe that God is only in heaven is that you believe that God the Father has a body, which of necessity would limit Him to one point in space. But again, God is Spirit and is not limited to one place.
The Mormon beliefs are so different than mainline Christianity, that this really points to a chasm that cannot be bridged, at least in terms of basic beliefs.
The Mormon beliefs are so different than mainline Christianity, that this really points to a chasm that cannot be bridged, at least in terms of basic beliefs.
Matthew 18:20
"For where twoorthree come together in my name, there am I with them.”
Ephesians 4:10
"He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe."
Jesus claims in Matthew 18 that he is omnipresent.. the same claim that only God is to have. At this very moment, just how many places are there two or three gathered right now?
And what to do with what was revealed in Ephesians ... ascended higher than all the heavens, and to fill the whole universe?
Yes. There are many verses which ascribe to each of the three Persons of the Godhead all of the attributes of deity. The whole of God is in every place. But as I said in another post, that does not imply Pantheism, as God is not His creation. But He is everywhere in His creation, and fills infinity as well.
Imagine a sheet of paper that had sixteen tiny holes in it. How many needles would be needed to simultaneously fit through all sixteen separate holes? If you said, “sixteen,” you are thinking in terms of "ontological omnipresence.” Fold the paper in such a way that the needle can be inserted through all sixteen holes at once. This represents “functional omnipresence.” God’s power can extend everywhere throughout the universe simultaneously, even though He is physically in heaven. Even though He occupies physical space, He is functionally omnipresent because He has the power to be so.
The Holy Spirit is the third member of the Godhead. As His name implies, He is a person comprised solely of spirit, unlike the other two members of the Godhead (the Father and the Son). He is the means by which we communicate with God, our Father in Heaven. The scriptures say that we must worship Him in spirit and in truth. Since we are physical beings, the only way we can worship Him, communicate with Him or learn from Him is Spirit to spirit. The Holy Spirit testifies of truth. This is the means by which Peter came to realize that Jesus was, in fact, the Christ, Son of God. The Holy Spirit is also the Comforter Jesus promised to send in His absence. Unlike the Father and the Son, both of whom are functionally omnipresent, the Holy Spirit is ontologically omnipresent. It is because of this characteristic, unique to Him alone, that He can simultaneously dwell in our hearts and throughout the universe. In other words, God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are physical beings who (though the Holy Ghost) function as if they were present everywhere at once, even though they are ontologically not.
Last edited by Katzpur; 10-21-2012 at 10:43 PM..
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