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Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Who is the inward man ?
Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. What does this mean ?....Seeing yourself like this........O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Instead of this
No, in all thesethings WE ARE more than conquerors through him who loved us. Seeing how God sees us and the world changes us from the inside out.
Worm theology is not of God.
Cimaroon try calling yourself the thing you believe you are not in faith and see what happens.
Faith does not come from God. I have already explained why in post #4.Ephesians 2:8 is not referring to faith as the gift from God, but that salvation is a gift from God. That gift is taken possession of through a faith response to the gospel message.
The bible says "Faith COMES by hearing and hearing the word of God."
If faith COMES, it was not present to begin with. If Faith COMES God had to bring it.
If God had to bring faith then the one who got faith did not originally possess it.
The bible says "Faith COMES by hearing and hearing the word of God."
If faith COMES, it was not present to begin with. If Faith COMES God had to bring it.
If God had to bring faith then the one who got faith did not originally possess it.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God. That means, just as I have been saying, that faith is a response to what you know about someone. When you hear the gospel, you learn something about Jesus Christ. As a result, you have faith in Christ. The faith is your response to what you have learned about Jesus Christ under the common grace ministry of the Holy Spirit. The faith comes from you as a result of having heard the gospel.
Rom_12:3 For I am saying, through the grace which is given to me,
to everyone who is among you, not to be overweening, beyond
what your disposition must be, but to be of a sane disposition,
as God parts to each the measure of faith."
Gal_2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."
Not only does God part to each the measure of faith, we are not justified by the faith He parts to us. We are justified by Jesus Christ's faith!
Mike, you write as if everyone who ever lived in the world has faith.
Can a desperately wicked beastly heart heed this instruction ?
1 My son, do not forget my teaching,
but keep my commands in your heart,
2for they will prolong your life many years
and bring you prosperity.
3Let love and faithfulness never leave you;
bind them around your neck,
write them on the tablet of your heart.
4Then you will win favor and a good name
in the sight of God and man. 5Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.a
7Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.
Of course a desperately wicked beastly heart cannot heed this instruction. This is why God has to take out our stony heart and give us a new heart and when he does we will always...not sometimes...or most times...but always walk in his statutes, and shall keep his judgments, and do them. We really truly do not trust God until he changes our heart.
Think about this:
You've fallen into shark infested waters, they are swimming around you, you see them everywhere, do you completely trust God to where you are totally at peace, no panic or fear within your heart. I know of no one that is truly able to be at complete peace....trusting God fully. So I think in the verses you listed above, God is speaking to us after he changes our heart...and only then will we respond in a way that pleases him...Fully trusting him with our whole heart.
Now here is the evidence that he is speaking to us After he changes our heart/nature. Notice the the very first words of the verse, "MY SON".
Remember this verse:
Romans 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
As long as we are in this earthy, fleshy body we are children of the devil…this is why we must return to the dust of the earth/ back into our mother’s womb (the belly of the earth)/the grave, but here is the good news of God’s wonderful promise at that place where it was said ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are SONS of the living God. This is because in that place, the place of death, our iniquity which offends God will be removed and we will be born of the spirit…Just as God is spirit…the flesh is no more. Hence we are now SONS of God. Born of him, unable to commit sin.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for God's seed(His Spirit) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
If you want a scripture that you can be other than how you see yourself, here it is.
First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. Matt 23:26.
Think about that verse again...Can you clean out the sin from inside your heart? I know of no one that can do that.
Here is a scripture to confirm that:
Jeremiah 13:23
Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
If the leopard cannot change the spots that God gave them then how can you do good when you are accustomed to do evil.
Ecclesiastes 7:13
Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Only God can straighten out our path and only God can clean the inside of our heart. Only God can make us spotless.
Isaiah 45:2
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight. Who makes it straight? God does.
Ezekiel 36:25
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. Who cleans the filth? God does.
You see we just wash the outside and so from the surface we may even seem righteous to some, but inside, where it truly counts to God, we are nothing but evil. So again who is cleaning the inside of the cup? Sounds like God to me. But I do understand why we would think otherwise...It is not our fault, our wicked heart deceives us.
Wonderful verses Cimaroon and I believe you tie them all together in an excellent manner.
I understand where PCamps and the others are coming from. No, I don't think your view means we are to live in defeat, thinking that all we do or think is evil for God knows and sees who we WILL be when we receive that new heart. Scripture says He is not holding our sins against us. It is difficult to sort out all the verses and interpretations. We KNOW that this physical body and the physical mind can't always do what is right. If we're honest, we would admit it seldom does righteously. We don't control every thought that enters our mind and many circumstances cause our minds to think evil thoughts, tho they may not even seem 'very evil' to us. . But when we get our new spiritual body, our heart will not be wicked any longer. No thought will ever be displeasing to the Father. We will be new creations who, as you say will always be in line with the will of the Father and rejoice in that.
Please don't ever stop posting your insights. We never change our views of our own accord. It takes an act of God. We don't ever know if something one of us says, from either side of the 'camp' will have a positive impact on someone else, and the ripple effect can keep going. If God uses something any of us says for His glory, that can't be bad, no matter how many other posters 'stone' the messenger.
In all things, may we trust that God is working all for our good and His glory.
The heart of our savage and barbaric ancestors was wicked because they did not have the benefit of Christ's Holy Spirit within their consciousness as we do. We have the "mind of Christ" to guide us to what God has now "written in our hearts" so that we do not need any man to teach us the truth that is there. You may believe you are the same savage heart and beast as our ancestors . . . but I do not. We have Christ within us . . . they did not. We have an animal nature (not wicked). It is only wicked because like any other animal it does NOT discriminate between good and evil. When we follow it indiscriminately without love and regard for others and our effect on others . . . we act wickedly. When we follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" . . . we do NOT. That is how we become the spiritual man in Christ.
If you had the mind of Christ then you would NEVER have a sinful thought, EVER. So let's be real. As far as God's word being written in our hearts to where we do not need any man to teach us the truth...this does not occur until...after those days...what days is God speaking of...the end of days, when God renews a loyal spirit within us and brings everything under the authority of Christ.
Hebrews 8:10-11
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Notice that God tells us when he puts it in our minds and writes it in our hearts...ALL shall know him, from the least of us to the greatest of us and this is when we will no longer need to teach each other saying you should know the Lord.
Do we yet see ALL knowing him? No, but we know that ALL means no one is left out for the Scriptures state:
Hebrews 2:8
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
So when will we see ALL under the authority of Christ, bending their knees to him, acknowledging him as the Savior, not needing anyone to teach them that he is Lord?
Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Fulness of time...the complete time...the end of time. This is when God writes it in our hearts and puts it in our mind. If you do not have complete knowledge of God then how can you have the mind of Christ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You may believe you are the same savage heart and beast as our ancestors . . . but I do not. We have Christ within us . . . they did not.
Don't you think this sounds like the Pharisee vs the tax collector.
Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. "You may believe you are the same savage heart and beast as our ancestors . . . but I do not". These are your words and it sounds exactly like the words of the Pharisee.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.You may believe you are the same savage heart and beast as our ancestors. (I do agree that I am the same savage heart sinner and beast as my ancestors, I am created from the dust of the earth, this is why I need Christ).
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
And here is David saying the same thing...I am a sinner.
Psalm 51:3
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
And here is Paul who also had Christ say the same thing....in fact Paul said he was the chief of all sinners.
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
You think you are better than your ancestors as the Pharisee thought he was better than the publican. Your heart deceives you.
Rom_12:3 For I am saying, through the grace which is given to me,
to everyone who is among you, not to be overweening, beyond
what your disposition must be, but to be of a sane disposition,
as God parts to each the measure of faith."
Gal_2:16 having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith of Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith of Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified."
Not only does God part to each the measure of faith, we are not justified by the faith He parts to us. We are justified by Jesus Christ's faith!
Mike, you write as if everyone who ever lived in the world has faith.
I addressed Gal. 2:16 in post #47. Man is justified by his faith in Christ in response to the work of Christ on the Cross. No one is justified until they place their faith in Christ.
And Romans 12:3 is not referring to faith in a salvific sense. That is, it is not referring to faith with reference to eternal salvation. It is referring to faith with reference to the believer's dedicated service in his spiritual life after salvation. This faith is related to the function of the spiritual gifts. It has nothing to do with the faith a person must have in Jesus Christ in response to the gospel, in order to be saved.
For those who want to read my posts on this thread concerning faith; they are posts #4, 32, 47, and this one.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-15-2012 at 10:29 AM..
Cimaroon . You do not even need scripture to refute what you are saying. You cannot escape the fact that how you see yourself is how you are going to act. You simply cannot be anything other than what you see yourself to be and how you see yourself is how you are going to see others. You are fooling yourself to think otherwise.
Like Scarlet Wren said,it takes God to see how we see things differently,then we see God,ourselves and the world differently.
Worm theology is not of God.
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But I do understand why we would think otherwise...It is not our fault, our wicked heart deceives us.
