The greatest deceit…you must choose to believe in Christ (incarnation, scriptures)
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Really, I thought everything comes from God. Who then gives you your faith?
I already explained where faith comes from in post #4.
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Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.
Author and finisher: this means he is writing our entire faith from beginning to end.
Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Faith is not used here in a salvific sense. It is not talking about salvation from the penalty of sin, but of the believers spiritual walk after salvation. Jesus is the captain - the pioneer [the author] of the believers salvation (see Hebrews 2:10). But the author of Hebrews is not using the word salvation in the sense of justification which occurs at the moment a person believes in Christ. Salvation in the context of the passage is referring to the spiritual life of the believer after salvation. Just as the humanity of Jesus Christ was perfected through sufferings (Hebrews 2:10), so also the believer is matured through sufferings. Therefore, the author of Hebrews encourages his readers to run with endurance, the race which is set before us (see Hebrews 12:1). In other words, Jesus Christ is the author of our spiritual life.
The author of our faith [the word 'our' is not found in the original] means the pioneer of our spiritual life after having believed in Him for salvation. Just as Jesus was matured through suffering so also is the believer. Jesus Christ layed down a pattern. So in Hebrews 12:2 we are to focus on Jesus Christ who is the pioneer and finisher of our faith with reference to the spiritual life.
The believer is to run with endurance the race which is set before us [the spiritual life], by focusing on Jesus who had to endure a degree of suffering in His life far beyond anything we can imagine.
The passage has nothing to do with faith being given by God. Faith is always a response based on what is known about the person or object to which the faith is directed.
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Like the word says your heart deceives you. It is the most deceptive of all things for God's word clearly tells us that faith is a gift from God.
No it does not. Eph 2:8 says that salvation is a gift from God. Not faith. The gift spoken of is not referring to faith.
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1 Corinthians 12 tells us that it is the Spirit of God that gives us diversities of gifts. Faith is one of those gifts.
I already explained 1 Cor. 12:9 in post #4.
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According to Hebrews 11:1 Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Let us break that down.
What do we hope for? I hope for the reconciliation of all men to God for this was God's will. Have I seen the reconciliation of all men to God? No, but I hope for it anyway because the evidence is in God's word and his word is truth. God will not have anyone to perish but will have all to come to repentance and since he does as he wills I can trust that it will be done so I wait patiently for him to do the work in us all.
If I have already seen the reconciliation of all men to God then this would no longer be hope.
Now where is the evidence of God saving all men.....it is in his word but many of us don't want to see it. Our hearts are too hard to understand and seek mercy for others, but the evidence is there, for God wants us to know the truth.
So then you're a Universalist. Most Universalists will never escape from that error. All men will not be saved. The Bible doesn't say anything about all men being saved. It requires twisting the meaning of Scripture to come to the conclusion that it does.
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Where is our sin? Is it not in our heart?(Mark 7:18-23)
Who formed our heart to begin with? Who formed us in our mother's womb? Was it not God?
Who hardens the heart of man so that man cannot understand? Is it not God (John 12:40)
Romans 11:32 For GOD hath concluded them all in UNBELIEF, that he might have mercy upon ALL.
God is the only one who concludes us in unbelief and it is not some of us...it is all of us. Some of us just won't believe that we are in unbelief because our heart deceives us, but God's word is true....we are all in unbelief and God did this so he could have mercy upon us all.
Romans 11:32 and the surrounding passage is referring to Israel being temporarily set aside because of its corporate disobedience, and mercy being extended to the Gentiles. It is not saying that all men individually will be saved.
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So if man believeth in the heart then our heart is what's in need of a change. Is there evidence in God's word of him changing the heart of man and if there is such evidence when does he do it?
I have already explained that God the Holy Spirit convicts the unbeliever of the sin of unbelief, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16:8-11), and that it is possible for the Holy Spirit's conviction to be resisted and for a person to remain in unbelief. The convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit is not the giving of faith. A person's faith is a response to the convicting ministry.
The idea that faith comes from God is a Calvinistic belief which is not supported by Scripture when properly understood. The Calvinist who believes that faith comes from God takes it to mean that God will save some men, and leave in condemnation those He chooses not to save. The Universalist who believes that faith comes from God takes it to mean that all men will be saved. Neither view is correct.
I am not going to quote scripture here, for anyone who already believes, should know what it tells us!
God gave each of us Freewill, to choose to believe or not believe and He also gave us a way to return to Him when we went astray, by being truly sorry for your transgressions and asking for forgiveness! That being said, it is still up to each of us to seek Him and stay in His good graces, by living a life that would please Him! The choices we made are ours and ours alone and all true believing christians know this!
Enough said...God Bless and Guide you, but He will not force you!
Can a desperately wicked beastly heart heed this instruction ?
1 My son, do not forget my teaching,
but keep my commands in your heart,
2for they will prolong your life many years
and bring you prosperity.
3Let love and faithfulness never leave you;
bind them around your neck,
write them on the tablet of your heart.
4Then you will win favor and a good name
in the sight of God and man. 5Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.a
7Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.
Cimaroon, Jesus said that he is truth. Why does one need to "recognize they are desperately wicked" in order to experience Jesus/truth, in your opinion?
Because only when you can see yourself for what you are...the beast... can you truly acknowledge your complete depravity and need for Christ's redeeming blood.
Only when you recognize the sin that is in your own heart can you understand the sin in others. Only then will you see that we are truly no different from each other....we are all in the same place...in sinful natural earthy bodies....and as you know he will redeem you, even though you are still sinful, you will also know he will do it for everyone else.
When you are unwilling to acknowledge your own sinful nature, then you create divisions by separating yourself from others, thinking you have something that they don't and then we start judging those who are less fortunate, unbelieving, not choosing Christ as though you had chosen him on your own.
Think of the story of the Pharisee vs the tax collector
Luke 18:9-14
Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
The heart is most certainly deceitful when you follow after and live by the desires of the old nature.
No. that is not what the word says...the heart is deceitful and wicked period. This is why God has to cut it out and give us a new heart. With the new heart God said you will obey his statues and be sure to do them. You will not follow after your old nature with the new heart.
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Originally Posted by pcamps
For the Spiritually minded man it is not so, for God gives him the desires of His Heart,the good man( spiritual man) brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart,the spiritual man guards his heart for he knows its the well spring of life.
You are right, it is the spiritual man that brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart....but we are not yet spiritual until we first die.
1 Corinthians 15:36
Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:47-48
The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. Have you already become as Christ; perfect? If not then you are not yet Spiritual and if you were spiritual then you would never die for you would be incorruptible. The reason you are still dying is because you are still of the flesh.
1 Corinthians 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
Notice it says we have borne the image of the man of dust and we shall bear the image of the heavenly. Have is the present/shall is the future. From dust we came and to dust shall we return but when we have been raised from the dust we shall be spiritual.
To be spiritually minded is life and peace. You cannot have(experience the reality of it) life and peace while you believe you are desperately wicked.
Actually you can. When you recognize your state, you see the very purpose of why Christ had to die. Your peace comes from knowing that he will redeem you from that desperately wicked state. You begin to realize that even though you sin today, one day you will sin no more. I find great peace in that!
No. that is not what the word says...the heart is deceitful and wicked period. This is why God has to cut it out and give us a new heart. With the new heart God said you will obey his statues and be sure to do them. You will not follow after your old nature with the new heart.
The heart of our savage and barbaric ancestors was wicked because they did not have the benefit of Christ's Holy Spirit within their consciousness as we do. We have the "mind of Christ" to guide us to what God has now "written in our hearts" so that we do not need any man to teach us the truth that is there. You may believe you are the same savage heart and beast as our ancestors . . . but I do not. We have Christ within us . . . they did not. We have an animal nature (not wicked). It is only wicked because like any other animal it does NOT discriminate between good and evil. When we follow it indiscriminately without love and regard for others and our effect on others . . . we act wickedly. When we follow Christ's commands to "love God and each other" . . . we do NOT. That is how we become the spiritual man in Christ.
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