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Those who think Christianity is about going to heaven are living in darkness( this line of thought is rooted in the world) Christianity is about being Christlike, not for reward, but because its life.
He came that we might have life and life more abundantly.
28 And Peter began to say to him, 'Lo, we left all, and we followed thee.' 29 And Jesus answering said, 'Verily I say to you, there is no one who left house, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or fields, for my sake, and for the good news', 30 who may not receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brothers, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and fields, with persecutions, and in the age that is coming, life age-during; Mark 10
Notice that last phrase in Mark 10:
28 Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29 Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30 who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.
28 Peter began to say to him, “See, we have left everything and followed you.” 29 Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, 30 who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.
Jimmie do you seriously think I don't know that is not there ?. My point is Christianity as we know it believes its about escaping one(hell) and going to the another(heaven)this is not scriptural. He came that might have life and life more abundantly, He's our Savior for this life too, we can have as much of heaven here in this life as we want.
To rescue us from the hand of our enemies,
and to enable us to serve him without fear
In holiness and righteousness before him all our days.
To give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
Because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.”
The good news is not about escaping eternal hell but being able by the awareness of Christ in us to live holy
and righteous ,walking in the path of peace all of our days.
Jimmie do you seriously think I don't know that is not there ?. My point is Christianity as we know it believes its about escaping one(hell) and going to the another(heaven)this is not scriptural. He came that might have life and life more abundantly, He's our Savior for this life too, we can have as much of heaven here in this life as we want.
Well friend, you totally blew it on this one.
Paul said this in 2Corinthians, chapter 5:For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
********************
Now you say going to heaven is not scriptural??? My hobbie gets interesting. So what happens, in your opinion, to a Christian when he or she dies? Does one go to be with the Lord or not? And where does the Lord reside?
So it is about being blessed in this life? Well friend, you totally blew it on this one.
Paul said this in 2Corinthians, chapter 5:For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4 For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord— 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight— 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
********************
Now you say going to heaven is not scriptural??? My hobbie gets interesting. So what happens, in your opinion, to a Christian when he or she dies? Does one go to be with the Lord or not? And where does the Lord reside?
Clothed with our dwelling from heaven is being fully adorned by God, now understand in this light what Paul was saying when he wanted to be home with the Lord. The two becoming one.
For the record I have never said that heaven is not scriptural, I have said being saved is not about going to heaven.
Jimmie do you seriously think I don't know that is not there ?. My point is Christianity as we know it believes its about escaping one(hell) and going to the another(heaven)this is not scriptural.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Clothed with our dwelling from heaven is being fully adorned by God, now understand in this light what Paul was saying when he wanted to be home with the Lord. The two becoming one.
For the record I have never said that heaven is not scriptural, I have said being saved is not about going to heaven.
*********
Here is what Paul said-word for word: Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home inthe body we are absent from the Lord— for we walk by faith, not by sight— we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
What part of being absent from the body and being at home with the Lord do you not understand? I will spell it out for you.
Absent from the body= dead
At home with the Lord= being with the Lord in Heaven
This might get deleted because it's not original. But I think it is an appropriate response to the OP.
DESTRUCTION IS NOT ETERNAL
"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?" http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/perish.htm
John 3:16
Jesus knew that John 3:16 was not the end of the story…that’s why He continued to John 3:17 and talked about the salvation of all mankind!!!
Jesus makes no attempt to use verse 16 to negate or qualify verse 17. He simply makes both statements side by side as if both are completely true. The reason He does this is that both ARE completely true.
We see this over and over in Scripture, especially in the writings of Paul – a statement about people who have faith now (maybe a warning or exhortation or encouragement about the benefits of taking part in the kingdom of God a.k.a. the next two ages of life on earth) right next to a statement about how Christ accomplished the justification of all men. See Romans 3:23-24 and 5:18 and their contexts for example. This is no big deal; none of these statements negate, qualify (change), or contradict each other, because both concepts are 100% true. Some will be saved from death early and take part in the kingdom of God, and everyone else will be saved from death later.
To attempt to use some statements (about those who get saved early) to negate the others statements (about the eventual salvation of all) is to butcher the common sense rules of language and communication. We would never do this to each other in everyday communication; the only reason people try to do it to Jesus and Paul is because they cannot bring themselves to believe the plain statements about the eventual salvation of all mankind.
If I said to my kids, “Those of you who help me clean the yard today will get to go to a movie with me tomorrow, and next week I will take the rest of you to a movie,” I have made it very clear that all the kids will eventually go to the movies. My two statements do not contradict each other or negate each other in any way. This is the exact same thing Jesus does in John 3:16 and 17 – He makes two equally true statements. Yet “hell mindset” Christians try to make one statement negate the other in order to fit their preconceived inherited ideas.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 01-16-2013 at 10:14 AM..
Jimmie do you seriously think I don't know that is not there ?. My point is Christianity as we know it believes its about escaping one(hell) and going to the another(heaven)this is not scriptural. He came that might have life and life more abundantly, He's our Savior for this life too, we can have as much of heaven here in this life as we want.
To rescue us from the hand of our enemies,
and to enable us to serve him without fear
In holiness and righteousness before him all our days.
To give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
Because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.”
The good news is not about escaping eternal hell but being able by the awareness of Christ in us to live holy
and righteous ,walking in the path of peace all of our days.
It's actually all of the above.
Romans 5
9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
John 10:10
I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
Phil. 1
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
This might get deleted because it's not original. But I think it is an appropriate response to the OP.
DESTRUCTION IS NOT ETERNAL
"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?" What Does it Mean to "Perish?"
John 3:16
Jesus knew that John 3:16 was not the end of the story…that’s why He continued to John 3:17 and talked about the salvation of all mankind!!!
Jesus makes no attempt to use verse 16 to negate or qualify verse 17. He simply makes both statements side by side as if both are completely true. The reason He does this is that both ARE completely true.
We see this over and over in Scripture, especially in the writings of Paul – a statement about people who have faith now (maybe a warning or exhortation or encouragement about the benefits of taking part in the kingdom of God a.k.a. the next two ages of life on earth) right next to a statement about how Christ accomplished the justification of all men. See Romans 3:23-24 and 5:18 and their contexts for example. This is no big deal; none of these statements negate, qualify (change), or contradict each other, because both concepts are 100% true. Some will be saved from death early and take part in the kingdom of God, and everyone else will be saved from death later.
To attempt to use some statements (about those who get saved early) to negate the others statements (about the eventual salvation of all) is to butcher the common sense rules of language and communication. We would never do this to each other in everyday communication; the only reason people try to do it to Jesus and Paul is because they cannot bring themselves to believe the plain statements about the eventual salvation of all mankind.
If I said to my kids, “Those of you who help me clean the yard today will get to go to a movie with me tomorrow, and next week I will take the rest of you to a movie,” I have made it very clear that all the kids will eventually go to the movies. My two statements do not contradict each other or negate each other in any way. This is the exact same thing Jesus does in John 3:16 and 17 – He makes two equally true statements. Yet “hell mindset” Christians try to make one statement negate the other in order to fit their preconceived inherited ideas.
Keep going Rodger. Read verse 18. And then verse 36.
*********
Here is what Paul said-word for word: Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home inthe body we are absent from the Lord— for we walk by faith, not by sight— we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
What part of being absent from the body and being at home with the Lord do you not understand? I will spell it out for you.
Absent from the body= dead
At home with the Lord= being with the Lord in Heaven
You just cannot see it can you ? . Paul's mind was not set on what you think is heaven, his thinking was far higher than that, when we see him we shall by like him for we shall see him as he is.
Paul even said this
not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[a] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want toknow Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.
You're old man as got you looking at and to the wrong things and he's deceiving you. It's never been about going to the concept of heaven you have, but living out the God Life right here in the here and now, not for reward, but because having beheld Life(Jesus Christ), understanding it, you know to live any other way is death.
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