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It's a `fade-to-black scenario, there is no encore, no curtain call. The concept of ressurection of the body is a thing of Zombie tales, science has proven that matter changes forms, energy is recycled. Mankind has always sought an answer to death, our worry about what eternity will bring, but the conception of living in a spiritual world is a contrivance of man, meant to keep us striving for a higher reward, keep us from becoming Godless. There was a wise councilor in my life that I held great stock in their observations and deductions, my grandmother. She was moral and upright, yet practical and logical, and it was she who taught me to `reason out these questions, whether they were of life or death, and to use my common sense, unfettered by mystic ceremony or the `smoke-and-mirrors of "organized religion, she inculcated my need to analyze the details of what it was that I believed in, not to take another's word on what or where life was going. Granny got her things in order and passed away with a smile, she must have known that for all of her good, and all of her bad, it was like she figured, just a fade to black...
we are given the same glorified body Christ has.
as far as the death topic. when people die, they are dead. their spirit returns to where it came from. it returns to one place. not 2. It returns to God. Every persons spirit returns to the Almighty.
I agree. I don't believe that people are consciously alive in heaven when the spirit returns to God. I believe that all thoughts cease when the body dies and that we are resurrected with glorified bodies. The dead are actually dead, but it is as though the dead are asleep because death is only a temporary condition and the dead will rise. God bless and peace.
I agree. I don't believe that people are consciously alive in heaven when the spirit returns to God. I believe that all thoughts cease when the body dies and that we are resurrected with glorified bodies. The dead are actually dead, but it is as though the dead are asleep because death is only a temporary condition and the dead will rise. God bless and peace.
Shana, I'm curious, though, how you would respond to someone who has recently lost a loved one. So often, people say, "He's happy now. He's with God," or something to that effect. Maybe even, "I bet he has met up with his old fishing buddy and they are reliving old times." So are you saying that you believe that once a person dies, he is neither happy nor sad nor anything else until the day when his body is resurrected? His spirit is in Heaven, but he's entirely unaware of where he is and has no feelings or thoughts of any kind? This sounds similar to what some denominations believe to be "soul sleep." It's not my belief, but I'm not going to try to change your mind or anything. I'm just curious.
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Originally Posted by sschulz
Hi everyone Had an interesting discussion a while back and would like your opinions.
The friend I was talking with brought up that he thought the spirit was immortal and never died. I asked him if the spirit never died what is resurrection all about and why do we need it? He said that the physical body dies and that is what is resurrected. I then asked him why resurrect a physical body that can't go to heaven? He said that the physical body is then changes to a spiritual body. I said" wait you said the spirit never dies and so it has a spiritual body already, why make a physical body resurrect and then change it to a spiritual body to replace a spiritual body we already have. At this point he said I just did not understand how God works.
I believe that when we die we are dead and the dead as is says in Scripture, knows nothing, not even the remembrance of God. This is a good thing because it means we don't even know we are dead. From our point of view, death is like sleep, we die and the next thing we are aware of in coming before Christ for judgment, like waking up in the morning.
Our bodies don't need resurrection, we do, Thank God for Jesus our savior who is our resurrection.
for some reason that creeps me out..the whole not remembering.. dying and then like oh here i am, time to go to hell or heaven
Many people believe that if a person lives a bad life, after death he will go to a place of fiery torment to suffer forever. This dishonors God who is about love and would never make people suffer in this way. (1 John 4:8) How would you feel about a man who punished a disobedient child by holding his hands in a fire? Would you respect such a man? In fact, would you even want to get to know him? You would likely think that he was very cruel. Yet, The Devil wants us to believe that it is not him but God who causes death and is a murderous fiend, who tortures people in lakes of fire forever—for billions of years!
Lies continue to be spread about God, claiming that after death people become spirits who must be respected and honored by the living. According to this teaching, the spirits of the dead can become powerful friends or terrible enemies. Many people believe this and it is also portrayed in books, TV and movies. There is no reason to be afraid of them, for they cannot harm us. They do not need our help, and they cannot help us. We cannot speak with them, and they cannot speak with us. Many religious leaders falsely claim that they can help those who have died, and people who believe such leaders give them money. So people continue to fear the dead and give them honor and worship. In contrast, the Bible teaches that the dead are sleeping and that we should worship only the true God, our Creator and Provider. —Revelation 4:11.
No, you are wrong. The physical body is resurrected in Heaven with the spiritual body because it then becomes the glorified body that it was meant to be. Just as it was with Jesus.
Where does our spirit come from?...The very same spirit that is in all of creation?...Besides the Jews beliv(ed) that the body remains in the ground till the Day Of Resurrection and that Day is only for the righteous...
This is not a very good way to start a discussion...You're wrong??...Discussions are meant to be a learning tool for everyone involved..."Trust those who say that they are searching for Truth, Doubt those who claim that they have foubd it"...
Shana, I'm curious, though, how you would respond to someone who has recently lost a loved one. So often, people say, "He's happy now. He's with God," or something to that effect. Maybe even, "I bet he has met up with his old fishing buddy and they are reliving old times." So are you saying that you believe that once a person dies, he is neither happy nor sad nor anything else until the day when his body is resurrected? His spirit is in Heaven, but he's entirely unaware of where he is and has no feelings or thoughts of any kind? This sounds similar to what some denominations believe to be "soul sleep." It's not my belief, but I'm not going to try to change your mind or anything. I'm just curious.
Hi Katzpur, when I think of my mother who passed a few years ago, I think of her as being in the grave waiting the resurrection. She is no longer in any pain but is in the arms of Jesus awaiting the resurrection. I am not sure what soul sleep is. I know that there are scriptures when say that those who are dead know nothing. When Jesus said that Lazarus was asleep, He explained later, that Lazarus had died. It is described as sleep because death is a temporary condition. It is not permanent. Just as we rise from sleeping, we will rise from the grave. God bless and peace.
I most definitely understand where you’re coming from. My sister said the same thing, when she was trapped, and couldn’t give a good answer. Let me say this, ANY question can be answered by means of Jehovah God’s Holy Spirit. Because God WANTS ALL humans to have accurate knowledge, (Rom. 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge), which many don’t have, in order to gain eternal life ,(1Tim. 2:3,4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth). But also because we’re NOT coming in our OWN understanding ,(Pro. 3:5,6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths), which many do.
To answer your topic, those from Heaven, and Jehovah’s servants/Jesus followers knows death is ONLY sleep … for many ,([SIZE=3] [/SIZE]Dan. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt). And Here… (1Cor. 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept). True the physical body is basically sleep. The spirit IS the breath of life, which causes humans to live ,( Job 34:14,15 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath. All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust). That spirit, or breath of life, goes BACK, to the one who first gave it, Jehovah God.
What you believe, is truly RIGHT, you believe what Jehovah God’s word says. And you’re also right, we DON’T know if we’re dead. Question!.. why do people believe their dead loves ones can communicate with them. Yet I’ve NEVER heard one say, they spoke of a “hellfire”. It’s seems ALL who believed they have seen a dead love one. Speak or act as though they’re in Heaven. So what’s the point of a “hellfire?, (just thinking)! Anyway, still humans will resurrect , (after the wicked are destroyed ,(Psa. 37:9,10 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be).
Satan’s locked away ,(Rev. 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season). The faithful David knew he would sleep in his Grave ,(the true meaning for hell) , Psa. 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. And he knew he WILL be RESURRECTED ,([SIZE=3] [/SIZE]Psa. 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption). peace
I believe the doctrine you're describing is what Jehovah's Witnesses believe. I don't believe the scriptures teach this at all.
Very well put. I'm with you 100% on this.
Hi Katzpur I am not a Jehovah Witness I believe that the scriptures show us that when we die we are dead. We need resurrection.
As other have stated in this thread that the physical body is resurrected and combined with a spirit body to become a glorified body----uh, where did that idea come from? Our spirits are resurrected and we face judgment to face our carnal nature and through God's mercy we will reap what we have sown and we will be changed by the "GRACE OF GOD" It is not of our doing at all it is 100% a gift from God. But we will be changed in our heart and we will become like out Father. None of it by our doing but all of it by the grace of God.
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you believe what Jehovah God’s word says. And you’re also right, we DON’T know if we’re dead. Question!.. why do people believe their dead loves ones can communicate with them. Yet I’ve NEVER heard one say, they spoke of a “hellfire”. It’s seems ALL who believed they have seen a dead love one. Speak or act as though they’re in Heaven. So what’s the point of a “hellfire?, (just thinking)! Anyway, still humans will resurrect , (after the wicked are destroyed ,(Psa. 37:9,10 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be).
