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I'd be all for the state totally getting out of the marriage business. For Christians, as long as couple declare themselves to be husband and wife, that is all that matters. The Pastor of their church does not need to preside, but they must make some kind of a public statement of their new status as husband and wife. Unfortunately, the govt. seems to be constantly on the lookout for different ways to run our life.
These are my thoughts exactly and why I started the thread.
Gotcha. Since you want to define marriage at 1 man, 1 woman, you'll read Chapter 2 and ignore Chapter 4. BTW, I have never heard of the wives of Solomon marrying each other, just each of them to Solomon. As a matter of fact, the idea of multiple partners participating in a ceremony is rarely seen in discussions about marriage.
Also, I only chose Chapter 4 because it is the first of many, many, Biblical examples of men taking multiple wives. Do you want me to find a few dozen more so you can discredit them too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I said nothing of the sort. I think you're wrong if you don't read chapter 4 in light of chapter 2.
So then we can stop using the cases of multiple wives as some sort of argument against the male/female marriage argument? Solomon had 700 cases of "1 man, 1 woman".
I have no problem with the fact that there were men that had multiple wives. But each time, there were simply multiple cases of "1 man, 1 woman".
I'm really curious.
Does anybody besides Vizio think that Solomon had many cases of 1 man, 1 woman, making each marriage OK, or did he have a marriage consisting of more than 2 people? Are you OK with that? I've never head anybody claim that multiple marriages were still 1 man, 1 woman. What do you all think?
Does anybody besides Vizio think that Solomon had many cases of 1 man, 1 woman, making each marriage OK, or did he have a marriage consisting of more than 2 people? Are you OK with that? I've never head anybody claim that multiple marriages were still 1 man, 1 woman. What do you all think?
I think the point Vizio is making is that each marriage was between the one man named Solomon and that one woman. It was not the whole bunch in some kind of wild sex party. The larger point I believe Vizio is making is that no two women were married and no two men were married. It was always a man and woman and did not involve a third party within that marriage.
Watch some of the polygamy TV shows and you will see how they make it a point that each marriage is separate from each other although they have much in common. I think this is a common view among polygamist and the decedents of former polygamist. Not that I agree with the practice. I just know it exist and always has and even God must have allowed it.
So how would all of you feel about a church or pastor who performs a wedding ceremony for people without a state issued license?
No problem if they don't care about the State requirements, protections and benefits. As far as the state is concerned it is about a contract between two people, including responsibilities for developments within that contract like children, investments, etc., and that's all the State should be concerned about.
I think the point Vizio is making is that each marriage was between the one man named Solomon and that one woman. It was not the whole bunch in some kind of wild sex party. The larger point I believe Vizio is making is that no two women were married and no two men were married. It was always a man and woman and did not involve a third party within that marriage.
Watch some of the polygamy TV shows and you will see how they make it a point that each marriage is separate from each other although they have much in common. I think this is a common view among polygamist and the decedents of former polygamist. Not that I agree with the practice. I just know it exist and always has and even God must have allowed it.
Thank you, great summary. My argument is that using polygamy as an example is not a good example to use to justify same-gender marriage.
Does anybody besides Vizio think that Solomon had many cases of 1 man, 1 woman, making each marriage OK, or did he have a marriage consisting of more than 2 people? Are you OK with that? I've never head anybody claim that multiple marriages were still 1 man, 1 woman. What do you all think?
Each of Solomon's marriages was a union between him and one wife. It's just that in his case, this happened over 700 times. If wife #237 died or ran off with the blacksmith, that did not affect his marriage with wife #428. Likewise, when Solomon died he left 700 widows - not 700 wives still bound by marriage to each other.
I may take my truck to the local Ford dealer and take my car to the Chevy dealer. Thus I have a business relationship with two mechanics. However, each relationship involves only one customer and one mechanic. Jay Leno, if he chose to outsource his vehicle maintenance, would be more akin to Solomon.
No problem if they don't care about the State requirements, protections and benefits. As far as the state is concerned it is about a contract between two people, including responsibilities for developments within that contract like children, investments, etc., and that's all the State should be concerned about.
Well I see what you saying but most states do not require the license to be able to have those protections and benefits. I know many states have "common law marriages" they recognize. Most recognize a marriage if the party intended to be married and acted in such a way as though they were married.
Can anyone tell me why churches vehminatly defend the nessecity to sign a state marriage licenese otherwise make accusations of "fornication" etc.
The only scripture in the bible that even eludes to this is the "law of the land" scriputre but the state does not require a couple to become "legally married" to sleep with each other so how can anyone who has a shred of intellectual integrity buy into this, or is there some other scripture that more explicitly spells it out that im not aware of (I have done ALOT of research so I highly doubt it).
Marriage was not even a sacrament of the church until the 12th Century.
As far as the state getting involved, that really didn't gain momentum until the 1870s, particularly to prevent mixed marriages.
I personally believe that the state has zero authority in this matter, with the exception of protecting the underaged.
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