Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-04-2013, 12:38 AM
 
3,532 posts, read 6,433,032 times
Reputation: 1649

Advertisements

Jesus has not ever been recorded in the Bible using the precise words, “I am God.” However, that does not mean that He did not proclaim that He is God. Looking at John 10:30, Jesus is recorded as saying that “I and the Father are one.” Just from looking at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, we can interpret their reaction to Him claiming to be God. In fact, the Scriptures say that they tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).

The Jews understood exactly that Jesus was claiming His deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one and the same nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, which the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John also captures the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Thus, Jesus is God.

Even doubting Thomas, one of Jesus' disciples, shouted, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus doesn't correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death. Only an eternal God can offer eternal life to creatures who don't have it in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-04-2013, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,564 posts, read 12,836,845 times
Reputation: 9400
Jesus was a human being who invited God to live in his being. It's like allowing the Holy Spirit to reside in you....You are not God but have God living in you - Hence the living God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 02:45 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,331 posts, read 26,530,181 times
Reputation: 16430
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
Jesus has not ever been recorded in the Bible using the precise words, “I am God.” However, that does not mean that He did not proclaim that He is God. Looking at John 10:30, Jesus is recorded as saying that “I and the Father are one.” Just from looking at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, we can interpret their reaction to Him claiming to be God. In fact, the Scriptures say that they tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).

The Jews understood exactly that Jesus was claiming His deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one and the same nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, which the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John also captures the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Thus, Jesus is God.

Even doubting Thomas, one of Jesus' disciples, shouted, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus doesn't correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death. Only an eternal God can offer eternal life to creatures who don't have it in the first place.
Additionally, Philippians 2:5-8 states that Jesus existed in the form of God and that He became man.

And then there is the fact that Genesis 1:1 states that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and we find in John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 that the pre-incarnate Jesus created all that has been created. Therefore, Jesus is God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,509,974 times
Reputation: 1321
Jesus claimed it by doing things that is possible only by God :
Jesus claimed he had the authority to forgive sins ... a feat which God can only do Micah 7:18, Mark 2:7

Jesus knew the thoughts in the heart of people .... something only God can do Psalm 94:11,Matthew 9:4

Jesus has power over the weather ... something only God can do Job 37:15, Matthew 8:26-27




Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,077,642 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Jesus claimed it by doing things that is possible only by God :
Jesus claimed he had the authority to forgive sins ... a feat which God can only do Micah 7:18, Mark 2:7

Jesus knew the thoughts in the heart of people .... something only God can do Psalm 94:11,Matthew 9:4

Jesus has power over the weather ... something only God can do Job 37:15, Matthew 8:26-27




He was given all authority by the father...If it was not given to Him, would He still have it?...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,509,974 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
He was given all authority by the father...If it was not given to Him, would He still have it?...
Jesus was true God and while at the same time a true human .. a fact that is beyond human comprehension but can be understood as the truth by faith.

That is why it is said that Jesus did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage ,he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 09:54 AM
 
45,663 posts, read 27,282,625 times
Reputation: 23937
Colossians 2:9 - Fullness of deity in bodily form.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 1,120,454 times
Reputation: 298
Moses parted the sea, BECAUSE GOD WAS WITH HIM AND PROVIDED THE POWER. Elijah stopped the rain for 3(?) years because God gave him the authority. Jesus said He only did what the Father told him to do, so it was by the Father's POWER and INSTRUCTION that He did what He did. As far as forgiving, we are told we must forgive our brothers of anything we have against him before we come before the altar. Jesus said we are to ask for forgiveness AS WE FORGIVE OTHERS. On the cross, He ASKED the Father not to hold the sin of His murder against the perpetrators. He did not tell them they were forgiven by HIS INHERENT POWER.

Jesus claimed to be the SON OF GOD. As a son, He was given all authority, but it was GIVEN to Him, it wasn't His by right. He is a begotten SON. I don't believe that that refers to His birth via Mary, but His birth into the universe who was then given all power and authority over the creation that he formed by the Father's power. Jesus is worthy of much honor and praise and glory and He accepted it but He always gave pointed to His Father as being the source. As far as I know He never referred to the Holy Spirit as a separate entity. He never said the Father and the Spirit and He are one or the Holy Spirit and I are one.

If you want to believe Jesus is equal with the Father, that is your business, but to tell others they must believe the same way or they believe in a false God is wrong. Jesus claimed He was the SON of God. He definitely can be called our Lord, as any child of the King has the right to rule when given that right by His Father the Overlord. But He said He had a God. We will be one with the Father and The Son as the Son is one with the Father. That doesn't mean I will be supreme of myself. It means that the Father will give me whatsoever He desires to give me and I will receive it, but it was not mine originally since it will be given me. If Christ had to be given power, it wasn't His to begin with.

You make it so unreasonable to say that you MUST believe this or that when neither Christ nor any of the apostles said in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven you MUST say Jesus and the Father are the One True God. That is not the good news.

Have a relaxing and happy memory Independence Day everyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 12:21 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,331 posts, read 26,530,181 times
Reputation: 16430
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletWren View Post
Moses parted the sea, BECAUSE GOD WAS WITH HIM AND PROVIDED THE POWER. Elijah stopped the rain for 3(?) years because God gave him the authority. Jesus said He only did what the Father told him to do, so it was by the Father's POWER and INSTRUCTION that He did what He did. As far as forgiving, we are told we must forgive our brothers of anything we have against him before we come before the altar. Jesus said we are to ask for forgiveness AS WE FORGIVE OTHERS. On the cross, He ASKED the Father not to hold the sin of His murder against the perpetrators. He did not tell them they were forgiven by HIS INHERENT POWER.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth - The "Son of God," as "Creator," had an original right to all things, to control them and dispose of them. See John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:8. But the universe is put under him more particularly as Mediator, that he might redeem his people; that he might gather a church; that he might defend his chosen; that he might subdue all their enemies, and bring them off conquerors and more than conquerors, Ephesians 1:20-23; 1 Corinthians 15:25-27; John 5:22-23; Philippians 2:6-11. It is in reference to this, doubtless, that he speaks here power or authority committed to him over all things, that he might redeem, defend, and save the church purchased with his own blood. His mediatorial government extends, therefore, over the material world, over angels, over devils, over wicked men, and over his own people.
Matthew 28:18 Bible Commentary

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
saying, all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth; which is to be understood of him, not as God, who has the same original and underived power and authority over all creatures, and things in heaven and earth, as the Father has; but as mediator, to whom all things are delivered by the Father; and not of a power of doing this, or the other thing, or of omnipotence, being the Almighty; nor of doing miracles, and forgiving sins, which he had, and exercised before his death and resurrection, but of governing: he was king before, but his kingdom was not with observation; but now he was declared, and made manifest, to be both Lord and Christ; he had "all" power and authority for the settling the affairs of his church and kingdom, to appoint offices and officers in it, and, to bestow gifts upon men, to qualify them for the same, and to institute ordinances to be observed till his second coming
Matthew 28:18 Bible Commentary


Quote:
Jesus claimed to be the SON OF GOD. As a son, He was given all authority, but it was GIVEN to Him, it wasn't His by right. He is a begotten SON. I don't believe that that refers to His birth via Mary, but His birth into the universe who was then given all power and authority over the creation that he formed by the Father's power.
The idea that there was a 'time' when Christ was not, that there was ever a 'time' when He did not exist, is Arianism which was pronounced as a heresy long ago. But the old heresies get repackaged and remarketed. Jesus has eternally existed with the Father and with the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
Jesus is worthy of much honor and praise and glory and He accepted it but He always gave pointed to His Father as being the source. As far as I know He never referred to the Holy Spirit as a separate entity. He never said the Father and the Spirit and He are one or the Holy Spirit and I are one.
The Holy Spirit distinct from Jesus Christ and from the Father.
John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Quote:
If you want to believe Jesus is equal with the Father, that is your business, but to tell others they must believe the same way or they believe in a false God is wrong. Jesus claimed He was the SON of God. He definitely can be called our Lord, as any child of the King has the right to rule when given that right by His Father the Overlord. But He said He had a God.
Are you going to claim that Jesus Christ is not really a man because He also called Himself the 'Son of man'?

Jesus Christ is since the incarnation both eternal and infinite God, and true humanity. As man Jesus has a God. As God Jesus is undiminished deity, co-equal with the Father and with the Holy Spirit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-04-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,509,974 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Colossians 2:9 - Fullness of deity in bodily form.
Exodus 23:25 Worship the Lord your God,

2 Kings 17:39 Rather, worship the Lord your God;

Luke 4:8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’ ”

Jesus being worshiped:
Matthew 2:11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.

Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Matthew 28:17 When they saw him, they worshiped him;

Luke 24:52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

John 9:38 Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.










Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top