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I'm not a Universalist but I think the general idea is that nothing anyone could possibly do is worthy of eternal torture. Even we evil humans consider torture for a finite time to be a crime against humanity, particularly when it is done simply because someone has offended the ego of some absolute ruler. How much more heinous is torture with no hope of rehabilitation, which is the whole purpose of enlightened punishment anyway, to cause a transgressor to see the error of their ways and alter their future behavior accordingly with the goal that they be returned to society as a productive member.
People who have a problem with the whole "love me or I'll torture you forever" thing on those and other common-sense grounds are one thing. I don't know or care how liberal Christians attempt to reconcile that with scripture, or if they even bother. Perhaps there is a liberal Christian who can speak to that.
Got a question for ya. You keep telling us that God is so loving, he just COULDN'T send a person to hell.
How do you know that? What do you base that on?
I'm not a universalist either, nor do I necessarily think of the Creator as "loving," but if there is such a being, why would he bother with something as barbaric as hell anyway? Seems childish, at best.
Got a question for ya. You keep telling us that God is so loving, he just COULDN'T send a person to hell.
How do you know that? What do you base that on?
No, the bible you say you believe in states God IS Love.How do we know God could not do such a thing?, the bible you say you believe in states it.
Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.
It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God’s love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening]
1 Cor 13:4-5 & 7
No, the bible you say you believe in states God IS Love.How do we know God could not do such a thing?, the bible you say you believe in states it.
Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.
It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God’s love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening]
1 Cor 13:4-5 & 7
Love does not pay attention to anything but love
Seems some parts of the NT conflict with your opinion. God is love, but not all lovey dovey. Wrath and destroy. Not so happy, happy. With that said, this thread needs to be move to the so called "Christian" section.
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Seems some parts of the NT conflict with your opinion. God is love, but not all lovey dovey. Wrath and destroy. Not so happy, happy. With that said, this thread needs to be move to the so called "Christian" section.
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Here come the Calvary. The wrath of God is upon unbelief,how many times do you do need this pointing out to you. Your concept of God being wrathful is what Keeps that wrath upon you. The wrath of God is upon your concept of Christanity and projected upon all who give an ear to it. It is better to cut that ear off to that which is offensive to a sound mind and enter life maimed than heed that which is being passed off as Christianity.
Moderator cut: deleted
Last edited by june 7th; 07-31-2013 at 10:20 AM..
Reason: Sarcastic comment intended to illicit response setting up flame wars.
Seems some parts of the NT conflict with your opinion. God is love, but not all lovey dovey. Wrath and destroy. Not so happy, happy. With that said, this thread needs to be move to the so called "Christian" section.
John 3:36 says, Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Matt 10:28 says, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Good point 5150. The Bible IS inconsistent and contradictory on this subject, along with many other subjects. So, both points of view are equally valid, if you use the Bible as a resource.
Good point 5150. The Bible IS inconsistent and contradictory on this subject, along with many other subjects. So, both points of view are equally valid, if you use the Bible as a resource.
Only when you read it like a literal history book, and believe men were inspired to accredit God for the the atrocities they were committing.
Here come the Calvary. The wrath of God is upon unbelief,how many times do you do need this pointing out to you. Your concept of God being wrathful is what Keeps that wrath upon you. The wrath of God is upon your concept of Christanity and projected upon all who give an ear to it. It is better to cut that ear off to that which is offensive to a sound mind and enter life maimed than heed that which is being passed off as Christianity.
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Moderator cut: Orphaned response
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Only when you read it like a literal history book, and believe men were inspired to accredit God for the the atrocities they were committing.
Atrocities in the NT? Please explain. The Matthew quote was from Jesus. John from, John. Which of them were wrong?
Both I suppose such is your point of view. I could be wrong. But I think not.
I cannot imagine anyone worshiping that god with a cheerful heart.
I CAN imagine a lot of scared, resentful, bitter, hardened people sitting in pews, unhappy with their lives, hoping against hope that some vengeful attacking god is going to destroy everything and everyone they don't like. (But not them, of course. The other guy.)
Let's see: wrath and destroy god
or
God who loved us so much He created an Earth filled with His wonders and put us on it. Yes. I'll praise God and His infinite love for each of us. How thankful I am for never knowing this "wrath and destroy" some seem so familiar with.
Last edited by DewDropInn; 07-30-2013 at 08:25 PM..
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