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I don't see MaggieZ's comments saying the CC should be shut down.
The CC did it's own investigation into it's own sex abuse scandals. The CC internal investigation found only a very few, approximately 5% or some 6,000 priests were engaged in pedophilia. They determined it was a "historical" event limited mainly to the sex crazed 60's,70's, & early 80's.
The church recommended better screening of potential priest applicants. Though same sex attraction is a red flag, an applicant should be advised,
Sorry, but most of that is just sickeningly ignorant anti-gay propaganda.
The Causes and Context of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests in the United States, 1950-2010 http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/4688.php
"The researchers conclude that there is no causative relationship between either celibacy or homosexuality and the sexual victimization of children in the Church. Therefore, being celibate or being gay did not increase the risk of violating children. So, blaming the clergy abuse crisis in the Catholic Church on gay men or celibacy is unfounded."
This review is from: Vatican II, Homosexuality & Pedophilia (Paperback)
If this book was not so thououghly researched and footnoted a reader might suspect the author's intentions. If one thinks that the pedophelia scandal has gone away or that simply a few bad priests that slipped through the cracks into the priesthood, buy the book! Remember that 85% of the victims were young males! Of course, the priests who victimized these boys were homosexuals! And, you might ask why bishops protected them! Within the ranks of the clergy lives a pink elephant and this beast is protected by a lavender mafia. If you are curious as to the orientation of the clergy, buy the book. You'll be shocked.
I am not a gay man, but I'm tired of people trying to vilify gay men as child molestors and pedophiles.
Most men who sexually abuse boys are not gay.
Here is just some of the research that shows it is most often men with a heterosexual adult sexual orientation, or a small pecentage of true pedophiles with no adult sexual orientation who molest young boys:
“..a child’s risk of being molested by his or her relative’s heterosexual partner is 100 times greater than by someone who might be identified as a homosexual."
(Carole Jenny et al., Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?; 94 Pediatrics 41; July 1994)
"The man who offends against prepubertal or immediately postpubertal boys is typically not sexually interested in older men or in women" McConaghy N. (1998) Paedophilia: A review of the evidence. Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1998 Apr;32(2):252-65; discussion 266-7.
Behavior Research and Therapy
"Amongst the heterosexuals, the commonest remarks concerning attractive features of the victims, were that the young boys did not have any body hair and that their bodies were soft and smooth."
****************************** Archives of Sexual Behavior
“The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual."
Groth, A. N., & Gary, T. S. (1982). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and pedophilia: Sexual offenses against children and adult sexual orientation.
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Social Work and Child Sexual Abuse
"Homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia are not synonymous. In fact, it may be that these two orientations are mutually exclusive, the reason being that the homosexual male is sexually attracted to masculine qualities whereas the heterosexual male is sexually attracted to feminine characteristics, and the sexually immature child’s qualities are more feminine than masculine. . . . The child offender who is attracted to and engaged in adult sexual relationships is heterosexual. It appears, therefore, that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater sexual risk to underage children than does the adult homosexual male."
A. Nicholas Groth, William F. Hobson, and Thomas S. Gary, “The Child Molester: Clinical Observations,” in Social Work and Child Sexual Abuse, eds. Jon R. Conte and David A. Shore (New York: Haworth Press, 1982), p.136.
"In over 12 years of clinical experience working with child molesters, we have yet to see any example of a regression from an adult homosexual orientation. The child offender who is also attracted to and engaged in adult sexual relationships is heterosexual. It appears, therefore, that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater sexual risk to underage children than does the adult homosexual male."
“The belief that homosexuals are particularly attracted to children is completely unsupported by our data.”
(Groth and Birnbaum, “Adult Sexual Orientation and Attraction to Underage Persons.”)
“A gay man is no more likely than a straight man to perpetrate sexual activity with children.” (Stevenson, “Public Policy, Homosexuality and the Sexual Coercion of Children.”)
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Paedophiles, child abuse and the internet. Adrian Powell.
"An adult’s heterosexuality or homosexuality is not an indication as to the abuser’s sexual preference of children. As an example, an adult male abuser may prefer to sexually abuse male children aged between six and eight years while maintaining a heterosexual relationship with an adult female."
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"While it is a commonly held belief that men who prefer men as adult sex partners molest boys and men who prefer women as adult sex partners molest girls, our study results suggest something different.
..
The 1,038 men who molested boys reported a range of adult sexual preferences. Contrary to popular belief, only 8 percent reported that they were exclusively homosexual in their adult preferences.
The majority of men who molested boys (51 percent) described themselves as exclusively heterosexual in their adult partner preferences. An additional 19 percent reported they were predominantly heterosexual, while another 9 percent said they were equally heterosexual and homosexual in their adult sex life.
More than 60 percent of pedophiles have other paraphilias. Many are exhibitionists or voyeurs. Of the pedophiles who molest girls, 21 percent also molest boys. Of the pedophiles who molest boys, 53 percent also molest girls."
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And here is a general article by Dr Greg Herek showing how some conservative religious anti-gay groups misrepresent and distort studies like those above to vilify homosexuals.
I agree both gay and straight men can be child sex abusers. But gay priests did hurt the church. Straight men dropped out of seminary when they found gay priests diddling with each other in the showers. Talking to these men will tell you why they dropped out. The problems of gay was ignored.
I think you have it all wrong. I was a Catholic and went to a Catholic seminary in the early 70's Janelle. I wanted to be a priest. Pope John Paul II was making many changes and over 60% of those at the seminary left. It's no big secret what was left. I too left and ended up leaving the church because of things I'd seen and been exposed to. You have no idea.
Pope Benedict was a traditionalist. He was fighting to bring some semblance of order back to the church. I'm not going to speculate on why he retired, there are many unsubstantiated rumors, and I have no real insider information.
I'm not sure where Pope Francis will take the church. I do know this. Many of my relatives and my mom are Catholic. They have pretty much stopped going to church. The scandals finally proved to them what I've been saying for nearly 40 years now.
I could tell you and the other Catholics on the forum things I have seen and heard that would either make you sick to your stomach or call me a liar. I went through enough of that with my own family. My only concern is that Catholics find there way to heaven. There was a time I had no doubts that was the mission of the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, that has changed.
Whether you or any of the other staunch, devout Catholics will ever have ears to hear I don't know.
None of what you write shocks me. I was the first woman an ex-seminarian ever dated in his entire life, years ago. He entered a pre-seminary high school that was quite "closed" and then the seminary college and afterwards - he didn't become a deacon, didn't go that far, but did spend a number of years boarding with other seminarians. He once said, sarcastically, that the rector "liked the boys with the blond hair".
I am lucky because I don't feel tied to what I feel are superstitious beliefs and so I think I can see these priests and the clergy for what they are individually - some wonderful, some really messed up big time.
That is probably true. These priests abused the older teens, it was pederasty more than pedophilia. Older teen boys almost men but still not right. Those teens did not want it and rape was involved. Just evil.
None of what you write shocks me. I was the first woman an ex-seminarian ever dated in his entire life, years ago. He entered a pre-seminary high school that was quite "closed" and then the seminary college and afterwards - he didn't become a deacon, didn't go that far, but did spend a number of years boarding with other seminarians. He once said, sarcastically, that the rector "liked the boys with the blond hair".
I am lucky because I don't feel tied to what I feel are superstitious beliefs and so I think I can see these priests and the clergy for what they are individually - some wonderful, some really messed up big time.
Maybe you don't know, but that is really an insult. Catholics do not believe in superstitions. We only believe in the living, loving, heavenly God. I was never taught to worship the priests or anyone other than God.
Leave it to people like you to blame this on gays. Pedophilia and adult orientation are not related.
I don't think that gays are pedophiles any more than are heterosexual disordered people. I also have heard the comment that some young priests might be sexually immature (I think that this makes a lot of sense) and never do mature, and that they might develop a liasion with an adolescent boy less out of a pedophilia than a crush on a young man who is immature like themselves. I wonder if this might be the case in some instances: a developmentally immature young priest falling for adolescent boys. ??? I would think that an awful lot of men who go into the priesthood are developmentally immature anyway: Who goes willingly into a celibate life? It takes a lot to be mature and choose that kind of a life with your eyes wide open. I am not saying that this is not possible to be a mature human and yet a celibate priest, brother or nun, but often this is not the case.
It's a shame they didn't stop the straight priests who were molesting young girls and women. Would have been simple too: "You're.fired."
You are expecting far too much of the Church. The Church is systemically corrupt and damaged from within, having seen that video I looked at with Thomas Doyle. It's too far gone.
I am amazed at the "normal" and decent priests and nuns I do meet and know. Good people. In spite of what they are surrounded by...and a corrupt leadership.
Take a look at where Fr. Doyle, who was a canon lawyer right in the Vatican and was pretty high up there, has to say about the Pope Benedict when he was Cardinal Ratzinger. If that doesn't shock you, what will? Ratzinger had to have read report after report after report, with letters of evidence from victims, of pedophilia and sex abuse Church-wide. He did nothing. No one was reported to the police. Shuffle the priest around. That is apparently the solution!
Doyle says that John Paul II's beatification made him sick and angry. He says JP II "had to have known" what was going on and did precious little about it and at one point said: "This is a problem in the American Church." Outrageous. This man is up to be canonized.
I do not trust Pope Francis. He should be cleaning house and he is not. He should speak out against the canonization of JP II and instead he is going to participate in the ceremonies! Are we disgusted yet? I don't care anymore how "sweet" and "kind" and understanding and "enlightened" Francis seems to be. He is not dealing front and center with the issue of corruption to the very core in the Church re: the cover-ups by Benedict (whom Father Doyle feels ought to be indicted!!! I watched the second You Tube interview with Fr Doyle) and John Paul II who coddled and protected the enabler Cardinal Law and God knows who else.
Isn't that enough to make Catholics and others disgusted?
Maybe you don't know, but that is really an insult. Catholics do not believe in superstitions. We only believe in the living, loving, heavenly God. I was never taught to worship the priests or anyone other than God.
It is not an insult. I was raised RC, attended C high school, a Catholic college for women and in fact I studied quite a bit of Catholic theology in college and my mother owned and founded a theology and philosophy book store in Harvard Square. I am well read in the subject. I feel that many of the beliefs of the Church are based on superstition. You call them beliefs.
I might be willing to amend what I say in some cases: Anglican priests in the Church of England are often in agreement with me that the beliefs that Jesus was born of a virgin, was the Son of God, etc. are more like mythological stories used to guide us. I do accept that. I don't think you have to take these stories literally, nor anything else in the Bible.
I agree both gay and straight men can be child sex abusers. But gay priests did hurt the church. Straight men dropped out of seminary when they found gay priests diddling with each other in the showers. Talking to these men will tell you why they dropped out. The problems of gay was ignored.
An outside study, I recently saw on that video with Thomas Doyle, was commissioned to the John Jay College (a criminal justice college of good repute, a City of NY college) to find out if homosexuality was a causal factor in the pedophilia in the Church and it was found that it was not.
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