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"The history books will tell you that the first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Protestant pilgrims of Massachusetts in 1621. Not so. There was the Catholic Thanksgiving of 1565 in Florida and another Catholic Thanksgiving of 1589 in Texas."
"The history books will tell you that the first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Protestant pilgrims of Massachusetts in 1621. Not so. There was the Catholic Thanksgiving of 1565 in Florida and another Catholic Thanksgiving of 1589 in Texas."
"The history books will tell you that the first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Protestant pilgrims of Massachusetts in 1621. Not so. There was the Catholic Thanksgiving of 1565 in Florida and another Catholic Thanksgiving of 1589 in Texas."
This one beats you by one year Janelle,
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Long before the Pilgrims sailed in 1620, another group of dissident Christians sought a haven in which to worship freely. These French Calvinists, or Huguenots, hoped to escape the sectarian fighting between Catholics and Protestants that had bloodied France since 1560.
Landing in balmy Florida in June of 1564, at what a French explorer had earlier named the River of May (now the St. Johns River near Jacksonville), the French émigrés promptly held a service of “thanksgiving.” Carrying the seeds of a new colony, they also brought cannons to fortify the small, wooden enclosure they named Fort Caroline, in honor of their king, Charles IX.
Can't we simply enjoy Thanksgiving as a nation without 'which denomination had the first thanksgiving' games?
Maybe those Huguenots were onto something. Unless you consider what followed:
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In 1565, King Philip II of Spain issued orders to “hang and burn the Lutherans” (then a Spanish catchall term for Protestants) and dispatched Adm. Pedro Menéndez to wipe out these French heretics who had taken up residence on land claimed by the Spanish — and who also had an annoying habit of attacking Spanish treasure ships as they sailed by.
Seriously?
So you're happy to disparage the Pilgrims for having a Thanksgiving at Plymouth, but you find no problem (or contradiction) with the Spanish having their Thanksgiving after claiming other peoples' land for King Philip II of Spain– simply because they were Catholic??
This is an excellent question; and one, that if answered appropriately, could take many volumes.
Essentially, you bring to light the fundamental difference between the Spanish and English settlers - their religion! Religion is THE defining element of any culture.
Although not always faithful to her teachings, the Spanish conquistadors were, more often than not, guided by the predominant ethical force within their culture: The Catholic Church. Because of man's fallen nature, we have a disordered tendency to exploit others for our own benefit. The Church, just by virtue of her presence in a culture, mitigates this disordered human disposition - much to the benefit of that culture, and in this case, the Native Americans of Florida.
It is in this light that you will be able to understand the apparent differences between Cap. John Smith and Don Pedro Menendez.
I smell turkey in the oven, the dog is barking, company has arrived. Time to eat! I must cut this short, but a quick word of advice is in order: Be suspicious of modern, popular understandings of history. More often than not, the facts have been distorted, omitted or outright rewritten. Open yourself to the vast and intricate story of the 2000 year history of Holy Mother Church.
Gotta go! Happy Thanksgiving!
"The history books will tell you that the first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Protestant pilgrims of Massachusetts in 1621. Not so. There was the Catholic Thanksgiving of 1565 in Florida and another Catholic Thanksgiving of 1589 in Texas."
Yea, and Columbus didn't discover America nor ever set foot on it...And Plymouth Rock wasn't the only place that the Puritans settled in the Americas...
Because so many of our Thanksgiving traditions and the history we were taught in school originate from the Lincolnian "four score and seven years ago" narrative, a lot of the actual truth of history tends to get lost. The Puritans wanted religious freedom? Ha! For themselves, yes. For anyone else? They were some of the most intolerant pinheads ever to cross the Atlantic. Given the choice between Puritan neighbors and a Viking attack, I'd give the Viking attack long consideration.
OK, this was funny:'
Because so many of our Thanksgiving traditions and the history we were taught in school originate from the Lincolnian "four score and seven years ago" narrative, a lot of the actual truth of history tends to get lost. The Puritans wanted religious freedom? Ha! For themselves, yes. For anyone else? They were some of the most intolerant pinheads ever to cross the Atlantic. Given the choice between Puritan neighbors and a Viking attack, I'd give the Viking attack long consideration.
These guys make both weak:
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First, a little overlooked history: the initial encounter between Europeans in the future United States came with the establishment of a Huguenot (French Protestant) colony in 1564 at Fort Caroline (near modern Jacksonville, Florida). More than half a century before the Mayflower set sail, French pilgrims had come to America in search of religious freedom.
The Spanish had other ideas. In 1565, they established a forward operating base at St. Augustine and proceeded to wipe out the Fort Caroline colony. The Spanish commander, Pedro Menéndez de Avilés, wrote to the Spanish King Philip II that he had “hanged all those we had found in [Fort Caroline] because...they were scattering the odious Lutheran doctrine in these Provinces.” When hundreds of survivors of a shipwrecked French fleet washed up on the beaches of Florida, they were put to the sword, beside a river the Spanish called Matanzas (“slaughters”). In other words, the first encounter between European Christians in America ended in a blood bath. America's True History of Religious Tolerance | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine
OK, this was funny:'
Because so many of our Thanksgiving traditions and the history we were taught in school originate from the Lincolnian "four score and seven years ago" narrative, a lot of the actual truth of history tends to get lost. The Puritans wanted religious freedom? Ha! For themselves, yes. For anyone else? They were some of the most intolerant pinheads ever to cross the Atlantic. Given the choice between Puritan neighbors and a Viking attack, I'd give the Viking attack long consideration.
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5. The Pilgrims were relatively tolerant of other religious beliefs.
The Puritans, who settled the region north of Plymouth, were known for their strict approach to how religion was practiced within their borders. The Pilgrims, on the other hand, never made any attempts to convert outsiders to their faith, including the Native Americans they encountered in America and the nonbelievers who’d joined them as laborers in England. Generally speaking, they didn’t even try to impose their unique observances on their friends and neighbors. For instance, while the Pilgrims themselves didn’t themselves Christmas, they didn’t stop others from taking the day off and celebrating it as they wished. They also allowed men who were not part of their faith to hold public office, and they apparently had no problem with the intermarriage of believers and nonbelievers. As a matter of fact, they didn’t consider marriage to be a religious matter at all, preferring instead to view it as a civil contract outside the church’s jurisdiction.5 Things You May Not Know About the Pilgrims
Seriously? So you're happy to disparage the Pilgrims for having a Thanksgiving at Plymouth, but you find no problem (or contradiction) with the Spanish having their Thanksgiving after claiming other peoples' land for King Philip II of Spain– simply because they were Catholic??
Be suspicious of modern, popular understandings of history. More often than not, the facts have been distorted, omitted or outright rewritten.
From 6 Interesting Catholic Thanksgiving Facts You Need to Know - Taylor Marshall:
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Squanto, the beloved hero of Thanksgiving at Plymouth Rock, was Catholic! (Here’s my full article on the Catholicism of Squanto.) Squanto had been enslaved by the English but he was freed by Spanish Franciscans. Squanto thus received baptism and became a Catholic. So it was a baptized Catholic Native American who orchestrated what became known as Thanksgiving.
From other sources:
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At Malaga, Thomas Hunt managed to sell most of his captives, and was about to sell Squanto when two Spanish Jesuit priests intervened. The Spanish speaking priests seized Squanto who somehow convinced them to send him home. Not knowing where “home” was, the priests arranged for Squanto’s passage as a free man on a ship bound for London. It is likely that the Jesuits even baptized Squanto as a Catholic. Squanto was Catholic? And Other Thanksgiving Morsels
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This time he was sold to Spanish religious brothers. At that time, most of the Europeans were Christians. Anyone who was not a Christian was considered a ‘heathen,’ and could not be counted as a human being unless baptized and instructed in the ways of the Christian religion. So, the monks baptized Tisquantum.Tisquantum again left as soon as he could, and traveled from Spain to England where he caught another ship on its way to the New World, as America was called then. http://yuchi.org/Tisquantum.pdf
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Luckily for Squanto, he fell into the hands of a group of Roman Catholic friars who freed him and taught him about Catholicism; he was baptized and converted to their religion. http://www.therightperspective.org/2...d-squanto-day/
From the Catholic Dictionary:The word friar is to be carefully distinguished in its application from the word monk.
Unless ordained, monks and friars can not baptize or administer sacraments. While I'm not totally disputing Squanto's Catholic account, it seems, as one of the articles stated, it is "likely" he was baptized, and not necessarily factual.
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