Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No you are in error, Mike. To "believe on" Jesus means to follow His inner guidance (Comforter) and His instructions to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. Christ achieved salvation for us ALL and removed the possibility of eternal separation from God . . . because Christ's Holy Spirit is within the collective human consciousness connecting all human consciousness to God. What we DO with that foundation that Jesus laid for us ALL is up to us if we want His perfection to cover our imperfections. Otherwise we stand alone before the consuming fire of our God's pure love and the wickedness will be refined out as dross.
It is you who are in error. To believe on Christ means to rely on Him for eternal life in view of His finished work on the cross which made salvation available for all, but a reality only for those who believe on Him.
No one is automatically saved. One must respond to the gospel by trusting in Him for eternal life in order to be saved.
Furthermore, the Holy Spirit does not indwell the unbeliever. Your views simply are not scriptural but are instead inventions of your own personal theology, Your views are opposition to what the Bible teaches.
It is you who are in error. To believe on Christ means to rely on Him for eternal life in view of His finished work on the cross which made salvation available for all, but a reality only for those who believe on Him.
No one is automatically saved. One must respond to the gospel by trusting in Him for eternal life in order to be saved.
You are wrong, Mike. Salvation was never anything for us to worry about. Salvation was always Christ's job . . . NEVER ours. We do NOT save ourselves by anything we do. Christ has saved us. We sanctify ourselves under His love and perfection by DOING the Will of the Father . . . "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. Only the churches gain from the emphasis on believing the "right things" . . . which conveniently enough are what the church claims to teach. None of that is "believing on" Christ.
Quote:
Furthermore, the Holy Spirit does not indwell the unbeliever. Your views simply are not scriptural but are instead inventions of your own personal theology, Your views are opposition to what the Bible teaches.
Of course the Holy Spirit is available to us ALL. Why else do you think Jesus asked for the Good News to be spread throughout the world? Christ abides with us within our consciousness as the Comforter guiding us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant. There is no better news than that . . . God is with us!!!
You are wrong, Mike. Salvation was never anything for us to worry about. Salvation was always Christ's job . . . NEVER ours. We do NOT save ourselves by anything we do. Christ has saved us. We sanctify ourselves under His love and perfection by DOING the Will of the Father . . . "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. Only the churches gain from the emphasis on believing the "right things" . . . which conveniently enough are what the church claims to teach. None of that is "believing on" Christ.Of course the Holy Spirit is available to us ALL. Why else do you think Jesus asked for the Good News to be spread throughout the world? Christ abides with us within our consciousness as the Comforter guiding us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant. There is no better news than that . . . God is with us!!!
What you are really saying is that the Bible is wrong. And that the writers of Scripture were wrong. For it is plainly written,
John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.'
John 3:16 establishes a contrast between eternal life - life in relationship with God, life in the presence of God, and perishing. To perish does not mean to cease to exist, but to be eternally separated from God, as Paul makes clear in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9.
2 Thess. 1:8-9 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel (with regard to believing on Christ) of our Lord Jesus. 9]These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
The work of Christ made salvation possible. But to take possession of the free gift of eternal life which is offered to all, one must respond to the gospel by personally trusting in Christ for salvation. The Bible is clear on this. No amount of denial can change that fact. To say that everyone is automatically saved is a blatant rejection of Biblically revealed truth. And the Holy Spirit does NOT indwell the unbeliever.
You are wrong, Mike. Salvation was never anything for us to worry about. Salvation was always Christ's job . . . NEVER ours. We do NOT save ourselves by anything we do. Christ has saved us. We sanctify ourselves under His love and perfection by DOING the Will of the Father . . . "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. Only the churches gain from the emphasis on believing the "right things" . . . which conveniently enough are what the church claims to teach. None of that is "believing on" Christ.Of course the Holy Spirit is available to us ALL. Why else do you think Jesus asked for the Good News to be spread throughout the world? Christ abides with us within our consciousness as the Comforter guiding us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant. There is no better news than that . . . God is with us!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
What you are really saying is that the Bible is wrong. And that the writers of Scripture were wrong. For it is plainly written,
John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes on Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.'
No you are in error, Mike. To "believe on" Jesus means to follow His inner guidance (Comforter) and His instructions to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't.
Quote:
John 3:16 establishes a contrast between eternal life - life in relationship with God, life in the presence of God, and perishing. To perish does not mean to cease to exist, but to be eternally separated from God, as Paul makes clear in 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9.
2 Thess. 1:8-9 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel (with regard to believing on Christ) of our Lord Jesus. 9]These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
The work of Christ made salvation possible. But to take possession of the free gift of eternal life which is offered to all, one must respond to the gospel by personally trusting in Christ for salvation. The Bible is clear on this. No amount of denial can change that fact. To say that everyone is automatically saved is a blatant rejection of Biblically revealed truth. And the Holy Spirit does NOT indwell the unbeliever.
Wrong again. We have no power to eliminate our separation from God . . . that required Jesus Christ. He achieved salvation for us ALL and removed the possibility of eternal separation from God . . . because Christ's Holy Spirit is within the collective human consciousness connecting all human consciousness to God. What you think we must do to save ourselves is not the key. It is what we DO with the foundation that Jesus laid for us ALL. It is up to us to DO the Will of the Father if we want Christ's perfection to cover our imperfections. Otherwise we stand alone before the consuming fire of our God's pure love and the wickedness will be refined out as dross.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 12-04-2013 at 12:46 PM..
No you are in error, Mike. To "believe on" Jesus means to follow His inner guidance (Comforter) and His instructions to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't.
Wrong again. We have no power to eliminate our separation from God . . . that required Jesus Christ. He achieved salvation for us ALL and removed the possibility of eternal separation from God . . . because Christ's Holy Spirit is within the collective human consciousness connecting all human consciousness to God. What you think we must do to save ourselves is not the key. It is what we DO with the foundation that Jesus laid for us ALL. It is up to us to DO the Will of the Father if we want Christ's perfection to cover our imperfections. Otherwise we stand alone before the consuming fire of our God's pure love and the wickedness will be refined out as dross.
Once again. While Jesus made salvation available to all through His work on the cross in which He died as a substitute for our sins, no one is automatically saved. Only those who place their personal faith in Christ Jesus receive the imputation of God's perfect righteousness and eternal life. The Scriptures are clear on this. Your false teachings are in blatant disregard of the Scriptures.
To believe on Christ means to trust in, to rely on Christ for eternal salvation. As the Bible teaches.
The Holy Spirit is not in the collective consciousness of humanity. That is your made up belief and it is not what the Bible says.
The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This means you do not have to be a follower of Christ to gain entry to heaven. There are many paths that lead to the same destination.
What is the source or verification of your claim?? -- Mine is the Bible. Although the specific act of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not explicitly identified, the conditions of Salvation and Eternal Life .... and of eternal separation from God, are clear.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the refusal of God's call via His Holy Spirit to come to Salvation and Life through Jesus Christ. Those who believe God and entrust their lives to the saving power and grace of Jesus Christ are born again in the Holy Spirit. Those who do not, are guilty of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
I Jn 4:1-3 - Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
There are many paths to Christ, but, Christ is the only path to God.
Jn 14:6 - '.... no man comes to the Father, but, by me'
IJn2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also
2 Jn 1:9 ... Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
The answer exists, and all of us will eventually know it. What matters is, we all get there. Think of it as:
Salvation is the act of throwing the life preserver or the act of saving someone while drowning
Saved is standing on the shoreline saying "whew, that was close".
We can’t empty the sea to make it safer
We can swim where it’s safe
We didn't make the life preserver
We can choose to know the lifeguard
We didn’t make the rope and can't throw a life preserver to ourselves
We trust we made friends with the life guard
We can’t pull ourselves to safety and can’t swim against the tide
We can swim with the tide
We didn't obey the rules for swimming even though we had a voice in our heads saying “this is stupid”
No one wants to drown
So most of us cry for help, but proud will wait, 'cause they got it figured out. I don’t always swim where the life guard is on duty, so I’m learning to be the best swimmer I can . I suspect the sharks will get a few and some will drown.
... and even then we have CPR if it's done in time.
...just sayin'
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
