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It is unfortunate that education, including Seminary is so expensive. It is important for the man who has discovered that he has the spiritual gift of pastor/teacher to attend a good Seminary because Seminary gives the student the tools that he needs to be able to properly study and teach the Word of God. Seminary provides, or should provide training in the original languages, in Biblical history, in Biblical criticism, in learning how to properly exegete Scripture.
Now if a pastor only intends to give feel good sermons that are devoid of doctrinal content then seminary will be of little use to him. But if he intends to actually dig into the Word of God and study, study, study and teach, study, study, study and teach, then he needs to learn the above mentioned things so that he is prepared to dig into the Word of God and then teach his congregation. And while Seminary is not the only way to acquire that knowledge, it is the best place. It is also important to realize that Seminary only provides the tools. It provides a foundation upon which the pastor must build. It is up to the pastor to utilize those tools and increase his knowledge though his own study.
If a man truly has the gift of pastor/teacher then God will open the door for him so that he can get the training he needs, and then provide him with the opportunity to teach.
So you don't think the benefit of 3 years of direct on-the-job training with Jesus was worth anything? Or that knowledge of the scriptures is important?
We get as many years of on the job training as we want by reading, applying and obeying what we read in Scripture. Seminary training, ... well let me give you three examples that I know of.
1. A man going to a well known seminary became agnostic because of what he was taught there.
2. A young man was certified and was to be a youth pastor and hardly knew his Bible, as I was able to easily see in discussions with him, Didn't even know what his Church taught nor able to defend the teachings.
3. A third was a pastor and when confronted with a teaching that his church had that was out of line with scripture said; "I know, but I teach what I am paid to teach."
I have lived near several large and well known seminary's and visited them at times. The actual learning level of most students was abysmal. Mind you they did learn how to grow in authority, prestige and salary.
They are not necessary and we find no such in Scripture.
To use the examples from scripture: go with a good pastor/minister and learn from him as the Apostles did, Timothy did, etc. On the job training and at no real cost.
I think some posters belong to a band called "Twisted Scripture".
Just because it's not in the Bible does not automatically make it wrong, sinful, incorrect or any other negative connotation anyone wishes to assign. Legalism creeps in all the time in all ways... always.
See Proverbs 1:1-7
Does anyone for a moment think Jesus did not receive formal instruction from His Rabbi and for His carpentry?
Did He need it? probably not... but He received it never the less.
We get as many years of on the job training as we want by reading, applying and obeying what we read in Scripture.
So you're not opposed to a man learning from someone that has more education than him for 3-4 years?
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Seminary training, ... well let me give you three examples that I know of.
1. A man going to a well known seminary became agnostic because of what he was taught there.
2. A young man was certified and was to be a youth pastor and hardly knew his Bible, as I was able to easily see in discussions with him, Didn't even know what his Church taught nor able to defend the teachings.
3. A third was a pastor and when confronted with a teaching that his church had that was out of line with scripture said; "I know, but I teach what I am paid to teach."
I can name 3 men that went to Seminary and are good, godly teachers of God's Word, rightfully dividing it. What's your point?
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I have lived near several large and well known seminary's and visited them at times. The actual learning level of most students was abysmal. Mind you they did learn how to grow in authority, prestige and salary.
They are not necessary and we find no such in Scripture.
Actually, it was a fact that rabbis would typically take on a "class" of students, teaching them. Jesus walked the earth as a rabbi, teaching a "class" of students.
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To use the examples from scripture: go with a good pastor/minister and learn from him as the Apostles did, Timothy did, etc. On the job training and at no real cost.
By your logic, we'd have no medical schools. Anyone that wanted to be a doctor would just follow another physician around, maybe learn from him. After all, there were no medical schools in the 1st century, nor are they mentioned in scripture.
I'm guessing also that you probably have no electricity in your church? No running water? Do you even HAVE a church building where you worship? After all...those weren't in scripture.
Seminaries are money makers for the owners and teachers and thought to be for thsoe who get degrees.
However that has nothing to do with being a good Minister.
KJV Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
BBE Acts 4:13 Now when they saw that Peter and John were without fear, though they were men of no education or learning, they were greatly surprised; and they took note of them that they had been with Jesus.
NIV Acts 4:13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men,
There is no basis for a seminary in Scripture. Those who wish to serve others are the ones who learn and become teachers.
Yes, but Paul was a highly educated man.
Sorry. But I have a big problem when any megalomaniacal nitwit with good sales skills can proclaim himself a clergyman. Jim Jones anyone?
The problem with the self-appointed clergy is that the large majority of them are not moved by the Holy Spirit, but out of other motivations. This becomes pretty clear when you engage them in discussions and pretty much argue circles around them. It's not that hard to do. On the whole, a good seminarian has a far deeper understanding and appreciation of scripture than some guy who just wakes up one day and decides to do it.
Sorry. But I have a big problem when any megalomaniacal nitwit with good sales skills can proclaim himself a clergyman. Jim Jones anyone?
The problem with the self-appointed clergy is that the large majority of them are not moved by the Holy Spirit, but out of other motivations. This becomes pretty clear when you engage them in discussions and pretty much argue circles around them. It's not that hard to do. On the whole, a good seminarian has a far deeper understanding and appreciation of scripture than some guy who just wakes up one day and decides to do it.
So you're not opposed to a man learning from someone that has more education than him for 3-4 years?
Nope not if it is done as Jesus and the apostles did, free of any charge and for love of man and God.
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I can name 3 men that went to Seminary and are good, godly teachers of God's Word, rightfully dividing it. What's your point?
OK, the point being there is no guarantee, however being trained by someone IN the congregation, lets the congregation KNOW if you are any good or not. Not trust a scrap of paper.
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Actually, it was a fact that rabbis would typically take on a "class" of students, teaching them. Jesus walked the earth as a rabbi, teaching a "class" of students.
Yes and he charged .... nothing.
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By your logic, we'd have no medical schools. Anyone that wanted to be a doctor would just follow another physician around, maybe learn from him. After all, there were no medical schools in the 1st century, nor are they mentioned in scripture.
Strange that you would change the subject to one that has nothing to do with the subject. The subject is pastoring, not medicine. You "logically" should have seen that.
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I'm guessing also that you probably have no electricity in your church? No running water? Do you even HAVE a church building where you worship? After all...those weren't in scripture.
Actually we have a very nice Church with warm, even hot running water, and A/C, etc. Building paid off, a nice bank balance and ... no paid pastors and a growing congregation. However in early years we met in rented buildings and my wife's congregation even met in a park. Voluntary contributions are all that have ever been given, no plate passed, no tithing, etc., and NO paid pastors. Oh, we have 6 active pastors in my Church and a couple of older ones who do what they can. All free of charge.
You need to quit guessing as it leaves your next points looking foolish; or is this something you were taught to do?
Nope not if it is done as Jesus and the apostles did, free of any charge and for love of man and God.
OK, the point being there is no guarantee, however being trained by someone IN the congregation, lets the congregation KNOW if you are any good or not. Not trust a scrap of paper.
Yes and he charged .... nothing.
Strange that you would change the subject to one that has nothing to do with the subject. The subject is pastoring, not medicine. You "logically" should have seen that.
Actually we have a very nice Church with warm, even hot running water, and A/C, etc. Building paid off, a nice bank balance and ... no paid pastors and a growing congregation. However in early years we met in rented buildings and my wife's congregation even met in a park. Voluntary contributions are all that have ever been given, no plate passed, no tithing, etc., and NO paid pastors. Oh, we have 6 active pastors in my Church and a couple of older ones who do what they can. All free of charge.
You need to quit guessing as it leaves your next points looking foolish; or is this something you were taught to do?
You are acting in a non-biblical way. Scripture doesn't tell us to build churches or even use electricity. You need to stop.
Priests don't have those issues. It is basically 8 years of university education including history and often four years of philosophy. If they apply to the seminary from high school they don't have debt.
So you don't think the benefit of 3 years of direct on-the-job training with Jesus was worth anything? Or that knowledge of the scriptures is important?
“For those entering religious life, the expectation is that they be debt-free,” says Holy Cross Brother Paul Bednarczyk, Executive Director of NRVC, “but for graduates in today’s economy, where education costs have risen by 900 percent since 1978, paying off loans can take years to accomplish. The burden of student debt has become a serious problem for religious communities desirous of welcoming younger members.”
Of approximately 15,000 serious inquiries to men’s and women’s religious institutes in the past 10 years, one in three (32 percent) involved a person with educational debt averaging $28,000, a figure slightly higher than the $25,000 national average.
The majority of communities (two in three) show a willingness to work with candidates with educational debt—and some 42 percent of responding institutes assume educational debt for a least some of those who apply to enter their communities.
But, the study indicates, the practice of assuming debt places a heavy and growing financial burden on religious communities. Those applying to enter religious life during the past 10 years carried $3 million in educational debt, and if national trends continue, that overall student debt load will likely rise by 5 percent annually.
Men and women whose educational debt is delaying their entrance into a religious community often develop creative strategies for paying off their loans, such as online candy sales, marathon runs, or bingo fundraisers.
Several philanthropic organizations, such as the Knights of Columbus and individual donors or patrons of the institutes, also provide assistance with educational debt. But the study finds that no national vehicle exists for redressing the burden of educational debt on religious vocations."
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