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It means to come to the knowledge of. OK we both agree one can know that. However it also does not mean that one IS saved based on their own feeling of it. That is why we are told.
ASV 2 Corinthians 4:4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn upon them.
OK, with all the differing beliefs an contradictory beliefs about this how do we KNOW?
Paul told us how we knew others were saved by God in the past, their works.
No works no salvation.
The verse you keep denying makes it plain.
It speaks of a dead faith.
Now in Scripture Dead means either:
Dead as in not living, thus a faith that has no life, thus no salvation. Not inactive but dead as in lifeless.
Or
Dead as in spiritually dead, separated from God. That is also a faith that does not have any life or relationship with God.They are not joined but separated from God.
Those are the only two uses of "Dead" in scripture so the verse is speaking of one or the other and scripture does not contradict scripture.
Salvation cannot be taken away from us, but it can be thrown away. God does not force us.
KJV Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Those warnings would be meaningless unless we could throw it away.
NIV James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
ASV James 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
DEAD not inactive.
ESV Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
KJV Matt 21: 28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
ASV James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding your own selves.
Those who feel that a faith without the works of faith saves them are deluding themselves. These warnings are given for a reason, not just to take up room.Am I saved YES. Can I throw it away, YES. Does God want me to, NO, but He will let me if I wish.You too.
Remember if you are correct, I am saved. If I am correct, you could be in trouble.
Please show ANY verse that says you cannot throw your salvation away?
Any verse that says a faith with NO works saves?
No, the word 'may' is not a qualifer. It means that you can be confident based on what John wrote with reference to John 5:9 and following.
1 John 5:9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10] The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11] And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Now, here is what the Bible Knowledge Commentary says concerning 1 John 5:13.
5:13. John wrote these things . . . so that his believing readers would know that they had eternal life (cf. vv. 12, 20). The words ''these things'' are often wrongly taken to refer to the whole epistle. But similar expressions in 2:1, 26 refer to the immediately preceding material and the same is true here. What John had just written about God's testimony (5:9-12) aims to assure his readers that, despite anything the antichrists have said, believers do indeed possess eternal life. It may be pointed out, in fact, that the assurance of one's salvation always rests fundamentally and sufficiently on the direct promises that God make to that believer. In other words, one's assurance rests on the testimony of God. [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures BY Dallas Seminary, p. 902]
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
As for the word 'dead' there are in fact seven categories of death. Not only two as you stated. I have an old thread on that, and you can take a look at it if you wish.
You asked me to show you any verse that says that you cannot thrown your salvation away. I did that in my own thread also. However, Romans 6:8, and 2 Tim. 2:11 which states that if which is in the Greek first class condition and means it is assumed to be true, and so, since we have died with Christ, we WILL live with Him. Every believer is identified with Christ in His death at the moment he simply believes on Christ. And therefore, since every believer has died with Christ, every believer will live with Christ. Not exceptions. And that means the believer cannot throw away his salvation. You must have read that on my own thread, and so the fact that you ask me to show you a verse which says that the believer cannot throw away his salvation, indicates that you have no real interest in being objective about the issue. You are just going to take your stance, dig in your feet and deny the Biblically taught reality that eternal salvation is by grace through faith in Christ. You are just going to deny that eternal life is a free gift as both Jesus and the Holy Spirit said.
And you just asked me to show you a verse which says that faith with no works saves.
Sure. Here is what Jesus Himself said about that.
John 6:27 "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." 28] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" 29] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
When Jesus spoke of working for the food which endures to eternal life He was asked by the crowd what the works of God were that they could do them in order to have eternal life. Jesus corrected them by telling them that there was only one thing which they must do, and that was to simply believe on Him. He called believing on Him a 'work' because it was something they had to do, but it is a non-meritorious work for which no credit can be taken. Jesus refuted the idea that there were works - PLURAL, which had to be done for eternal life. Simply believe on Him.
If you have never simply trusted in the finished work of Christ on the Cross, but have always tried to work for your salvation then you have never been saved, but remain under condemnation. You do not receive eternal life when you add anything to faith alone in Christ alone. You either trust in Christ completely for eternal life, or you stick you oar in the water and try to help row your way to eternal life. You can't do it.
Works belong to the believer's spiritual life. They have nothing to do with the issue of being delivered from the penalty of sin and receiving the free gift of eternal life.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-29-2014 at 06:01 PM..
No, the word 'may' is not a qualifer. It means that you can be confident based on what John wrote with reference to John 5:9 and following.
1 John 5:9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. 10] The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. 11] And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12] He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 13] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Now, here is what the Bible Knowledge Commentary says concerning 1 John 5:13.
5:13. John wrote these things . . . so that his believing readers would know that they had eternal life (cf. vv. 12, 20). The words ''these things'' are often wrongly taken to refer to the whole epistle. But similar expressions in 2:1, 26 refer to the immediately preceding material and the same is true here. What John had just written about God's testimony (5:9-12) aims to assure his readers that, despite anything the antichrists have said, believers do indeed possess eternal life. It may be pointed out, in fact, that the assurance of one's salvation always rests fundamentally and sufficiently on the direct promises that God make to that believer. In other words, one's assurance rests on the testimony of God. [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures BY Dallas Seminary, p. 902]
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
The false arguments you are making in this post are the same ones that were made on my own thread, and I refuted them there. I am not going to repeat myself here.
As for the word 'dead' there are in fact seven categories of death. Not only two as you stated. I have an old thread on that, and you can take a look at it if you wish.
Oh, I just noticed that you asked me to show you any verse that says that you cannot thrown your salvation away. I did that in my own thread also. However, Romans 6:8, and 2 Tim. 2:11 which states that if which is in the Greek first class condition and means it is assumed to be true, and so, since we have died with Christ, we WILL live with Him. Every believer is identified with Christ in His death at the moment he simply believes on Christ. And therefore, since every believer has died with Christ, every believer will live with Christ. Not exceptions. And that means the believer cannot throw away his salvation. You must have read that on my own thread, and so the fact that you ask me to show you a verse which says that the believer cannot throw away his salvation, indicates that you have no real interest in being objective about the issue. You are just going to take your stance, dig in your feet and deny the Biblically taught reality that eternal salvation is by grace through faith in Christ. You are just going to deny that eternal life is a free gift as both Jesus and the Holy Spirit said.
Interesting, however #6 is your opinion to support your belief and is not clearly stated in scripture. The two verses about not throwing salvation away do not address that, rather it again is what you force into them.
It is either #1 or #2 as I stated. It can't be sexual, which is not a death of the person, just his lineage and it can't be # 2 on your list as the person is still alive in the flesh, it can be # 3 and Paul clearly shows in 1 Cor 6:9 addresses that as does Heb 4:6, #4 would also not apply, so we are left with literally/physical death of faith or a separation from God/spiritual death. Now it could be symbolically be sexual as it does not produce life in the individual, he is the end of the line, it could be #5 as such a dead faith would lead to the 2nd death. Your #6 is covered in the others and is an attempt to ignore James and Paul's and Jesus' and ... well it ignores the inspired word.
You are free to believe as you will, but ALL scripture must agree and it does not with OSAS at all.
Interesting, however #6 is your opinion to support your belief and is not clearly stated in scripture. The two verses about not throwing salvation away do not address that, rather it again is what you force into them.
It is either #1 or #2 as I stated. It can't be sexual, which is not a death of the person, just his lineage and it can't be # 2 on your list as the person is still alive in the flesh, it can be # 3 and Paul clearly shows in 1 Cor 6:9 addresses that as does Heb 4:6, #4 would also not apply, so we are left with literally/physical death of faith or a separation from God/spiritual death. Now it could be symbolically be sexual as it does not produce life in the individual, he is the end of the line, it could be #5 as such a dead faith would lead to the 2nd death. Your #6 is covered in the others and is an attempt to ignore James and Paul's and Jesus' and ... well it ignores the inspired word.
You are free to believe as you will, but ALL scripture must agree and it does not with OSAS at all.
What you stated was that the Bible only mentions two kinds of death. And you are wrong as was shown.
And none of those categories are personal opinion. They are all Biblically taught. But that is off topic of this thread.
The Bible affirms the fact that the believer is eternally secure and you have been shown the Scripture which proves it. I have gone over this and over this on my own thread and I will not waste my time with you here.
<snip>
Now, here is what the Bible Knowledge Commentary says concerning 1 John 5:13.
5:13. John wrote these things . . . so that his believing readers would know that they had eternal life (cf. vv. 12, 20). The words ''these things'' are often wrongly taken to refer to the whole epistle. But similar expressions in 2:1, 26 refer to the immediately preceding material and the same is true here. What John had just written about God's testimony (5:9-12) aims to assure his readers that, despite anything the antichrists have said, believers do indeed possess eternal life. It may be pointed out, in fact, that the assurance of one's salvation always rests fundamentally and sufficiently on the direct promises that God make to that believer. In other words, one's assurance rests on the testimony of God. [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures BY Dallas Seminary, p. 902]
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Actually, Mike, you have once again written your own Bible. Reading I John 5:13 without reading I John 2:1-29 which is filled with "tests" that a person who claims Christ should make on their own life. "May" might not be a qualifier, but IF certainly is---and John's entire epistle is written to people claiming to be Christians--he calls them his "children" and his "friends" and his "brothers," throughout the entire letter.
I John 2: 15-17
Quote:
Do not love the world or anything in the world. IF anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes, and the boasting of what he has and does---comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
I John 2: 24-25
Quote:
See that what you have heard from the beginning REMAINS in you. IF it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.
I John 3:21-24
Quote:
Dear friends, IF our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, BECAUSE WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS AND DO WHAT PLEASES HIM. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ AND to love one another as he commanded us. Those who OBEY HIS COMMANDS live in him and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
I John 4: 7-8
Quote:
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love DOES NOT KNOW GOD, because God is love.
I John 5: 2-4
Quote:
This is how we know that we love the children of god: by loving God AND CARRYING OUT HIS COMMANDS. This is love for God: to obey his commands.And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
Mike, you tried once again to skip over the whole message of a an epistle. John certainly commends faith, but he does so because he knows it results in obedience. Repeatedly, you have stated obedience is a separate issue. But neither Jesus nor John, nor James taught that. And it is even arguable that Paul didn't teach that either.
A true faith reveals itself in obedience. Can a true Christian "lose" their salvation--certainly an argument can be made for that. But what cannot be denied is that a true follower of Jesus reflects the belief in his heart by the life that he leads.
This is an age where people don't want any real commitment to anything. Not to marriage, not to God, not to country, or job, and, in too many cases, not even to family. But to be a follower of Jesus requires one completely sell out heart, mind, and soul in following Him. And that's how easy believism came to the forefront in this past century, and why so many godless people claim to be christian--it doesn't require any commitment.
If you aren't sold out to Jesus above everything--above your career, above your family, above your money and assets, you can be sure that you do not have Jesus abiding in you, no matter how many professions of faith or one time decisions you've made. You are lost. I hope you won't be going to hell, but Jesus spoke of hell more than any other character in the Bible.
If this sounds harsh, it's meant to be. It's not meant to let anyone think they should believe they have any assurance of salvation if the fruits of obedience are not present in their life.
pastorALly, all the verses are true--when you have folks picking one or the other, or emphasizing one over the other, it's because they do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide them in understanding ALL instruction is profitable for our spiritual growth.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 01-29-2014 at 07:36 PM..
Actually, Mike, you have once again written your own Bible. Reading I John 5:13 without reading I John 2:1-29 which is filled with "tests" that a person who claims Christ should make on their own life. "May" might not be a qualifier, but IF certainly is---and John's entire epistle is written to people claiming to be Christians--he calls them his "children" and his "friends" and his "brothers," throughout the entire letter.
I John 2: 15-17
I John 2: 24-25
I John 3:21-24
I John 4: 7-8
I John 5: 2-4
Mike, you tried once again to skip over the whole message of a an epistle. John certainly commends faith, but he does so because he knows it results in obedience. Repeatedly, you have stated obedience is a separate issue. But neither Jesus nor John, nor James taught that. And it is even arguable that Paul didn't teach that either.
A true faith reveals itself in obedience. Can a true Christian "lose" their salvation--certainly an argument can be made for that. But what cannot be denied is that a true follower of Jesus reflects the belief in his heart by the life that he leads.
This is an age where people don't want any real commitment to anything. Not to marriage, not to God, not to country, or job, and, in too many cases, not even to family. But to be a follower of Jesus requires one completely sell out heart, mind, and soul in following Him. And that's how easy believism came to the forefront in this past century, and why so many godless people claim to be christian.
If you aren't sold out to Jesus above everything--above your career, above your family, above your money and assets, you can be sure that you do not have Jesus abiding in you, no matter how many professions of faith or one time decisions you've made. You are lost. I hope you won't be going to hell, but Jesus spoke of hell more than any other character in the Bible.
If this sounds harsh, it's meant to be. It's not meant to let anyone think they should believe they have any assurance of salvation if the fruits of obedience are not present in their life.
pastorALly, all the verses are true--when you have folks picking one or the other, or emphasizing one over the other, it's because they do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide them in understanding ALL instruction is profitable for our spiritual growth.
No Dresden. I have not written my own Bible. But you have by rejecting not only what Paul taught, you don't even believe what Jesus said about the fact that eternal life is not a result of works, but by believing on Him.
Nor have I tried to skip over the entire message of an entire epistle.
John's reference to the believer knowing that he is saved refers to the immediately preceding verses of 1 John 5:9-12. Not to the entire epistle.
That that is not my own personal opinion was shown by the fact that I posted what the Bible Knowledge Commentary said about the passage.
5:13. John wrote these things . . . so that his believing readers would know that they had eternal life (cf. vv. 12, 20). The words ''these things'' are often wrongly taken to refer to the whole epistle. But similar expressions in 2:1, 26 refer to the immediately preceding material and the same is true here. What John had just written about God's testimony (5:9-12) aims to assure his readers that, despite anything the antichrists have said, believers do indeed possess eternal life. It may be pointed out, in fact, that the assurance of one's salvation always rests fundamentally and sufficiently on the direct promises that God make to that believer. In other words, one's assurance rests on the testimony of God. [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures BY Dallas Seminary, p. 902]
And John stated that the believer can be confident that he has eternal life. The 'if' to which you must be referring in 1 John 5:9 refers to the fact that if we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. And the testimony of God is that He who has the Son has eternal life. Everyone who has trusted in Christ has the Son and always will. John wrote 1 John 5:9-12 so that those who have believed in Christ can know that they have eternal life. John reference was to the immediate context. Not to the entire epistle.
A true Christian is anyone who has simply trusted in Jesus Christ alone for his salvation. Period. Whether he is obedient or disobedient, he has been credited with God's own perfect righteousness and declared to be justified. No experiential unrighteousness on the part of the believer can negate the fact that He has the very righteousness of God which is what qualifies Him to live in the presence of God forever.
You insist on making discipleship a requirement for salvation because you cannot understand that eternal salvation and discipleship are two different issues. And so you accuse grace oriented believers of being spiritually lazy. But the Bible distinguishes between them.
There is no such thing as a true faith versus a false faith. The faith that a person places in Christ for eternal life does not necessarily mean that he is going to grow up spiritually and have a productive spiritual life. Whether he does or not, he has eternal life and can not lose or walk away from it. And that is the grace of God.
The Bible says that you can know that you have eternal life. You deny it. I believe the Word of God.
Last edited by Michael Way; 01-29-2014 at 08:52 PM..
So, the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children?
Those who keep the commandments of God; and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
The OP is assuming that set a and set b are contradictory, which they are not. Once converted, a Christian already has eternal life, forgiveness of sins, the Holy Spirit, their name in the book of life, they are part of God's kingdom, a disciple and servant of God, a child of God and part of the body of Christ. These are all gifts of God's grace to all who believe. But people do change their minds. They do decide they'd rather chase money or fame, they'd rather be popular and follow the ways of the world. If that happens, then they can lose their salvation because they no longer love God above all things. Instead, now they have made money or something else their god. They have fallen back into idolatry, and have walked away from God of their own free will. God did not force them. His offer of forgiveness is always there, but some refuse to repent and so they are lost. Ezekiel 33:11-19 explains this all very well.
Here are verses cited by both Arminians and Calvinists to support their positions on whether a TRUE Christians can lose their salvation. Though many will figure this out anyway I'm not indicating which set of verses are Arminian, and which are Calvinist to hopefuly avoid preconceived ideas. Since many on this forum have an aversion to Paul, I purposely avoided verses attributed to him.
Question: If this was the only passage of Scripture that existed, how would you answer the question, "Can true Christians lose their salvation?"
Why do Christians make the scriptures so difficult? They aren't.
List A and List B both describe two different sets of people: believers and non-believers or false believers. Neither list is very representative of just one position, and you left out about a hundred other verses for both lists.
They DO NOT describe two different kinds of believers and thus theological positions that need to be "ironed out" by the ivory tower dwellers among us.
The Bible says what it says. That's all.
If you obey the Lord, you have eternal life, and that includes obedience in both keeping his commandments and in doing what you must do when you FAIL to keep his commandments. There is no power greater than God that can thwart this promise.
If you do not obey the Lord, you don't have eternal life. And there is no power in heaven or on Earth that will keep you from death.
The caveat is that you cannot obey God perfectly in the flesh. That's why Christ came as the final sacrifice. That's why the Israelites were forced to sacrifice bulls and goats over and over and over again, year after year after year until the Messiah came.
It's so simple.
Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 01-29-2014 at 10:22 PM..
No Dresden. I have not written my own Bible. But you have by rejecting not only what Paul taught, you don't even believe what Jesus said about the fact that eternal life is not a result of works, but by believing on Him.
Nor have I tried to skip over the entire message of an entire epistle.
John's reference to the believer knowing that he is saved refers to the immediately preceding verses of 1 John 5:9-12. Not to the entire epistle.
That that is not my own personal opinion was shown by the fact that I posted what the Bible Knowledge Commentary said about the passage.
5:13. John wrote these things . . . so that his believing readers would know that they had eternal life (cf. vv. 12, 20). The words ''these things'' are often wrongly taken to refer to the whole epistle. But similar expressions in 2:1, 26 refer to the immediately preceding material and the same is true here. What John had just written about God's testimony (5:9-12) aims to assure his readers that, despite anything the antichrists have said, believers do indeed possess eternal life. It may be pointed out, in fact, that the assurance of one's salvation always rests fundamentally and sufficiently on the direct promises that God make to that believer. In other words, one's assurance rests on the testimony of God. [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures BY Dallas Seminary, p. 902]
And John stated that the believer can be confident that he has eternal life. The 'if' to which you must be referring in 1 John 5:9 refers to the fact that if we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. And the testimony of God is that He who has the Son has eternal life. Everyone who has trusted in Christ has the Son and always will. John wrote 1 John 5:9-12 so that those who have believed in Christ can know that they have eternal life. John reference was to the immediate context. Not to the entire epistle.
A true Christian is anyone who has simply trusted in Jesus Christ alone for his salvation. Period. Whether he is obedient or disobedient, he has been credited with God's own perfect righteousness and declared to be justified. No experiential unrighteousness on the part of the believer can negate the fact that He has the very righteousness of God which is what qualifies Him to live in the presence of God forever.
You insist on making discipleship a requirement for salvation because you cannot understand that eternal salvation and discipleship are two different issues. And so you accuse grace oriented believers of being spiritually lazy. But the Bible distinguishes between them.
There is no such thing as a true faith versus a false faith. The faith that a person places in Christ for eternal life does not necessarily mean that he is going to grow up spiritually and have a productive spiritual life. Whether he does or not, he has eternal life and can not lose or walk away from it. And that is the grace of God.
The Bible says that you can know that you have eternal life. You deny it. I believe the Word of God.
Actually, we disagree in that you choose what parts you like and emphasize those while denigrating the rest--in other words you editorialize the scripture to fit the doctrine that you swallowed hook, line and sinker--because it surely was not due to individual scholarship.
In contrast, I have accepted EVERYTHING that either Jesus or John said--everything. Since nowhere do the scriptures state a born again christian need not serve Christ or not be His servant--NOWHERE--I must reach the conclusion that God expects both faith in His Son and a life that reflects living His commandments.
You reject the testimony of Clear Lens, an amateur researcher of ancient manuscripts, you reject the parts of the scripture that speak expressly against your easy-believism, you state The 'if' to which you must be referring in 1 John 5:9 refers to the fact that if we receive the testimony of men---, when it says no such thing. You have added to the scripture, you have disobeyed the very command you often quote out of Revelation about adding or subtracting anything to scripture.
And more than that, Mike, you simply don't know Jesus. I do know Him, and I recognize Him in others. I have literally tried to run away from Him and cannot--He tracks me down. That's what happens to people who have the spirit of God in their heart. They feel convicted not only when they sin, but when they omit obeying His commands. And they feel great joy in serving God. I try every time to do it as anonymously as I can because the Lord commanded that the right hand should not know what the left is doing. And I do not do it for praise, I do it because I am a servant and my Lord commands it. I don't deserve praise for that--I've only met His expectation. An employer may reward an employee for going over and beyond what is required of them, but rarely can they expect praise for just being average. And that's what I am when I obey my Lord--average. You don't earn salvation by doing your duty. But if you don't do your duty, then you are not in the employ of the Master.
You have not learned how to discern the spirits because you don't love Jesus enough. As I've said before, it is an all or nothing proposition--and that's not something you hear from many pulpits anymore. Easy-believism is anti-Jesus, anti-Christian, stands completely against the Holy God that is taught everywhere in the scripture, both Old and New Testaments. You may holding to a form of godliness but your heart is denying the power behind it, because you consider serving the Master to be a good, but unnecessary part of one's spiritual life.
You cannot be a part of God's family without faith in His Son, Jesus Christ. And you cannot be a part of that family if you don't obey God's commandments. This has been shown to you time and time again, and you continue to persist in unbelief. As that same John wrote in the first of his epistles, "our love for Him comes as a result of His loving us first." But how can you say you "love Him" if you are teaching that serving Him is an unnecessary part of being a part of His family? Oh, it's nice, but it's not necessary. The god you are worshiping just isn't very Holy.
How do we know, really KNOW that we love Jesus--that we are sold out to Him. That He is the master of our lives. John is very, very clear on this--"Hereby do we know that we know him, IF we keep his commandments." (I John 2:3).
You cannot talk your way out of that verse. You either know Him or you do not--and you KNOW that you know Him IF you keep His commandments!! That's it. That's how you know. If you don't have that assurance because you are failing to keep His commandments, then you have reason to be afraid--very afraid--regardless of what anyone else has told you about what it "means." You can read that verse for yourself. So can everyone else--and each of us should look into our own soul to see if we have the Doctrine of Assurance--without it no other doctrine means a single thing. You cannot be sure of your salvation, if you are living just like everyone else in the world. If no one can distinguish you from anyone else by your actions, by what you watch or read, by the off-color jokes you chuckle at, by how you treat other people--even by your political views of either supporting or not supporting help for the homeless or those needing health care or providing mental health care facilities--then what difference did God make in your life when you "believed?" He didn't make any change--and He didn't make any change because you did NOT really believe.
People absolutely despise the commitment required to become a real Christian. I see that resistance from you in every word you write. If doing good works is a burden--then you don't know Jesus. Make a real commitment to Jesus Christ, He will not let you go. You will try to follow in His footsteps because of the great joy it produces in your heart. Following His commandments then becomes a privilege and an honor.
Loving Jesus is not just something emotional; loving Jesus means changing our lives, reforming our lives, working on our personalities and characters, overcoming sinful habits, stretching ourselves to love as Jesus loved. Loving Jesus means thinking about ourselves and others as Jesus thinks. If you aren't doing that then you don't have faith--ZERO, NONE, NADA--it's just not there, regardless of the amount of biblical knowledge or certainty you might think you have. You just don't know Him--and that should make you aware that He doesn't know you---and that should scare you even more.
My words do not come to me as eloquently as yours. You've said exactly what I've been trying to say to those who believe in OSAS! If OSAS were biblical, we would not need the entire bible and it's commandments. We would only need two or three scriptures to tell us we just needed to believe on Him and all will be ok. No need for repentance either. Foul up your lives and commit to a life of sin because you've already believed in The Lord Jesus Christ.
I cannot wrap my mind around this misconstrued, tainted and watered down version of the bible. No wonder Christians have falling away over the years. They're so confused.
So far, the people I've come across who believe in OSAS, will always tell me the bible does contradict itself. HOW IS THAT BIBLICAL? They only proclaim there are contradictions in order to live the lifestyle of a OSAS believer.
And they always quote the saaaaaame verse. Do they not have another one they can use? If they have to believe on Him to be saved, then that means they have to believe in Him. To believe in Him you have to know who He is. To know who He is you have to read His word and obey His commandments.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Conclusion... The word was God and the word was made flesh and dwelt among men. If you're going to believe on Him, you have to believe on ALL of Him (He's one in the same). Therefore, God and His Word do not, can not and will not ever contradict itself. God is without sin, He can not lie. Believe in all the scriptures, not just the ones that propagate the OSAS agenda and half hearted beliefs.
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