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Care to comment on the remainder of that post of mine (and this one)?
Why do you suppose the saints were allowed to use a musical instrument (harp) in heaven to praise and worship God there? They were "holding harps, given them by God, and sang the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the Lamb:" See Rev. 15:1-4.
Were musical instruments allowed for worship in the OT, not allowed in the NT, and then again allowed in heaven?
Were musical instruments allowed for worship in the OT, not allowed in the NT, and then again allowed in heaven? [/quote]
Now, that's a good question. I thought of this last weekend. I cannot believe that Keith Green [or many, many other musicians out there] who would use the piano for anything else other than a form of worship.
For what it's worth (and to their credit), many cofC members have already posted that they see nothing wrong with worshipping with instruments, though many would be turned off (hopefully on a cultural level only) by the rock band style of praise most commonly found in my church.
It seems that are only several remaining standouts on this issue.
No one answered your post, but I will add additional thoughts to it.
Too, Colossians 3:16 says to "...admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs."
Revelation 15:2 says the saints "held harps given them by God".
Psalm in the Greek (Strongs #5568) means "a set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp or other instrument)." The root word "psalm" in Greek is "psallo", which means to twitch, twang or pluck, such as pluck a string of a musical instrument.
Why would God give the saints harps, if they were not to be used to worship and give glory to Him?
Some people go as far to say that musical instruments are the work of Satan. How absurd.
Excellent points. As atomtkirk pointed out, he did answer, but thank you for answering as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyknish
Now, that's a good question. I thought of this last weekend. I cannot believe that Keith Green [or many, many other musicians out there] who would use the piano for anything else other than a form of worship.
For what it's worth (and to their credit), many cofC members have already posted that they see nothing wrong with worshipping with instruments, though many would be turned off (hopefully on a cultural level only) by the rock band style of praise most commonly found in my church.
It seems that are only several remaining standouts on this issue.
I am/was definitely one of those. I never condemned others for using them, but when I've visited other places that did use what seemed to be a rock band, I got nothing out of it. I'd much rather hear the voices. I just think if others get more from it by using that band, then that is what matters.
I am/was definitely one of those. I never condemned others for using them, but when I've visited other places that did use what seemed to be a rock band, I got nothing out of it. I'd much rather hear the voices. I just think if others get more from it by using that band, then that is what matters.[/quote]
I appreciate your thoughts on this.
Do you currently attend a church, if you don't mind me asking?
Last edited by joeyknish; 01-06-2012 at 12:38 PM..
Here are some points to consider about musical instruments in worship.
1. God does not want us to stand out apart from each other or above each other. When someone is playing a musical instrument, they are standing out from the rest. Listening to music is not worship. It is passive, not an act of worship. It may be inspirational, and it may make one feel good, but God wants to hear all of us praise Him. We are there to give Him worship, not to be entertained. We are told to make music with our hearts, ALL OF US. Not everyone can play a musical instrument, but everyone can sing, and whether or not it's off key doesn't matter. It is beautiful to our Lord.
2. Did God ever authorize musical instruments as part of worship? David wrote psalms and they were accompanied by musical instruments, but were they a part of the worship that God authorized? If so, where are the scriptures that say this? The point was raised that God gave harps to the saints in heaven. Does the scripture say these harps were to be used for worship?
3. One of the things the church of Christ has tried to do is to pattern itself after the New Testament church in every way possible. Worship with musical instruments is not found in the New Testament church.
4. Just because the church of Christ teaches that musical instruments should not be used in worship, this does not mean they condemn those to hell who do. We can only show what the scriptures say, or in this case, what they don't say. But no one that I know of is condemning anyone. If they are, then they are WRONG, and will answer for it.
I believe Joey has a point. We need to do some research on what worship is, and where in the OT are musical instruments authorized for worship.
Katie: thank you, my friend. For the most part, we seem to be rotating between the same set of verses and positions on corporate worship in a church service, but I think there needs to be a definition of worship prior to taking the corporate topic any further.
It is written, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever"
Music is to draw us in to worship, a great gift from God who gives talent to some to take that lead for us.
38:20 The LORD was ready to save me: therefore we will sing my songs to the stringed instruments all the days of our life in the house of the LORD.
PS 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
PS 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instrumements and organs.
PS 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
PS 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
PS 87:5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
PS 87:6 The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.
PS 87:7 As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.
1CHRON 15:16 And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of music, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.
1CHRON 15:17 So the Levites appointed Heman the son of Joel; and of his brethren, Asaph the son of Berechiah; and of the sons of Merari their brethren, Ethan the son of Kushaiah;
1CHRON 15:18 And with them their brethren of the second degree, Zechariah, Ben, and Jaaziel, and Shemiramoth, and Jehiel, and Unni, Eliab, and Benaiah, and Maaseiah, and Mattithiah, and Elipheleh, and Mikneiah, and Obededom, and Jeiel, the porters.
1CHRON 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1CHRON 15:20 And Zechariah, and Aziel, and Shemiramoth, and Jehiel, and Unni, and Eliab, and Maaseiah, and Benaiah, with psalteries on Alamoth;
1CHRON 15:21 And Mattithiah, and Elipheleh, and Mikneiah, and Obededom, and Jeiel, and Azaziah, with harps on the Sheminith to excel.
1CHRON 15:22 And Chenaniah, chief of the Levites, was for song: he instructed about the song, because he was skillful.
1CHRON 16:41 And with them Heman and Jeduthun, and the rest that were chosen, who were expressed by name, to give thanks to the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever;
1CHRON 16:42 And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with musical instruments of God. And the sons of Jeduthun were porters.
1CHRON 23:5 Moreover four thousand were porters; and four thousand praised the LORD with the instruments which I made, said David, to praise therewith.
2CHRON 5:12 Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets
2CHRON 5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;
2CHRON 5:14 "So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God." Today we call it "slain in the Spirit for the Sprit comes in such power one can not stand
2CHRON 7:6 And the priests waited on their offices: the Levites also with instruments of music of the LORD, which David the king had made to praise the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever, when David praised by their ministry; and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.
2CHRON 29:28 And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.
2CHRON 29:29 And when they had made an end of offering, the king and all that were present with him bowed themselves, and worshipped.
2CHRON 29:30 Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped.
2CHRON 30:21 And the children of Israel that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the LORD. 2CHRON 30:26 So there was great joy in Jerusalem: for since the time of Solomon the son of David king of Israel there was not the like in Jerusalem.
CHRON 34:12 And the men did the work faithfully: and the overseers of them were Jahath and Obadiah, the Levites, of the sons of Merari; and Zechariah and Meshullam, of the sons of the Kohathites, to set it forward; and other of the Levites, all that could skill of instruments of music.
NEH 12:36 And his brethren, Shemaiah, and Azarael, Milalai, Gilalai, Maai, Nethaneel, and Judah, Hanani, with the musical instruments of David the man of God, and Ezra the scribe before them.
NEH 12:27 And at the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem they sought the Levites out of all their places, to bring them to Jerusalem, to keep the dedication with gladness, both with thanksgivings, and with singing, with cymbals, psalteries, and with harps.
It is written, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever"
Music is to draw us in to worship, a great gift from God who gives talent to some to take that lead for us.
38:20 The LORD was ready to save me: therefore we will sing my songs to the stringed instruments all the days of our life in the house of the LORD.
PS 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
PS 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instrumements and organs.
PS 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
PS 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
PS 87:5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.
PS 87:6 The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.
PS 87:7 As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.
1CHRON 15:16 And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of music, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy.
1CHRON 15:17 So the Levites appointed Heman the son of Joel; and of his brethren, Asaph the son of Berechiah; and of the sons of Merari their brethren, Ethan the son of Kushaiah;
1CHRON 15:18 And with them their brethren of the second degree, Zechariah, Ben, and Jaaziel, and Shemiramoth, and Jehiel, and Unni, Eliab, and Benaiah, and Maaseiah, and Mattithiah, and Elipheleh, and Mikneiah, and Obededom, and Jeiel, the porters.
1CHRON 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1CHRON 15:20 And Zechariah, and Aziel, and Shemiramoth, and Jehiel, and Unni, and Eliab, and Maaseiah, and Benaiah, with psalteries on Alamoth;
1CHRON 15:21 And Mattithiah, and Elipheleh, and Mikneiah, and Obededom, and Jeiel, and Azaziah, with harps on the Sheminith to excel.
1CHRON 15:22 And Chenaniah, chief of the Levites, was for song: he instructed about the song, because he was skillful.
1CHRON 16:41 And with them Heman and Jeduthun, and the rest that were chosen, who were expressed by name, to give thanks to the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever;
1CHRON 16:42 And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with musical instruments of God. And the sons of Jeduthun were porters.
1CHRON 23:5 Moreover four thousand were porters; and four thousand praised the LORD with the instruments which I made, said David, to praise therewith.
2CHRON 5:12 Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets
2CHRON 5:13 It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;
2CHRON 5:14 "So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God." Today we call it "slain in the Spirit for the Sprit comes in such power one can not stand
2CHRON 7:6 And the priests waited on their offices: the Levites also with instruments of music of the LORD, which David the king had made to praise the LORD, because his mercy endureth for ever, when David praised by their ministry; and the priests sounded trumpets before them, and all Israel stood.
2CHRON 29:28 And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.
2CHRON 29:29 And when they had made an end of offering, the king and all that were present with him bowed themselves, and worshipped.
2CHRON 29:30 Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped.
2CHRON 30:21 And the children of Israel that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the LORD. 2CHRON 30:26 So there was great joy in Jerusalem: for since the time of Solomon the son of David king of Israel there was not the like in Jerusalem.
CHRON 34:12 And the men did the work faithfully: and the overseers of them were Jahath and Obadiah, the Levites, of the sons of Merari; and Zechariah and Meshullam, of the sons of the Kohathites, to set it forward; and other of the Levites, all that could skill of instruments of music.
NEH 12:36 And his brethren, Shemaiah, and Azarael, Milalai, Gilalai, Maai, Nethaneel, and Judah, Hanani, with the musical instruments of David the man of God, and Ezra the scribe before them.
NEH 12:27 And at the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem they sought the Levites out of all their places, to bring them to Jerusalem, to keep the dedication with gladness, both with thanksgivings, and with singing, with cymbals, psalteries, and with harps.
Every act of worship is to be authorized by God. The use of musical instruments is not authorized by God in the New Testament. We do not live under the Old Testament anymore. If we use the OT pattern of worship today, then we need to also be sacrificing animals.
The church of Christ is patterned after the New Testament in its work, worship and organization. The Old Testament is read and studied, but we do not follow the pattern of OT worship. This is why we meet on the first day of the week. We partake of the Lord's Supper on each first day. We make melody with our hearts by singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. We contribute to the needs of the saints, we pray, and we hear the word preached. Those are the only acts of worship authorized in the New Testament.
Every act of worship is to be authorized by God. The use of musical instruments is not authorized by God in the New Testament. We do not live under the Old Testament anymore. If we use the OT pattern of worship today, then we need to also be sacrificing animals.
The church of Christ is patterned after the New Testament in its work, worship and organization. The Old Testament is read and studied, but we do not follow the pattern of OT worship. This is why we meet on the first day of the week. We partake of the Lord's Supper on each first day. We make melody with our hearts by singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. We contribute to the needs of the saints, we pray, and we hear the word preached. Those are the only acts of worship authorized in the New Testament. Blessin
Katie
Katie
It is your church that does not authorize not the scripture.
COL 2:20 "Wherefore if you be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are you subject to ordinances,
COL 2:21 "[Touch not; taste not; handle not;
COL 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;] after the commandments and doctrines of men?
COL 2:23 Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship,"
Your command to not use instuments came from the doctrines of men, not the scripture
It is also written, "All things are pure to the pure at heart" and lawful when used in moderation. To deny one self what is lawful is only will worship not a commandment from the Lord.
Sorry Katie but on this one you are far out there if you are telling others the way to worship is only your way and using scripture to support your declarations. Sacrifices of animals in no way equate with worship using instruments of music today. On spiritual matters Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. He gives talents to be used. You can do what you want because it is no sin not to use instruments of music but your near calling it sin for us who are blessed by the Holy Spirit when we have anointed music with instruments in our churches.
There is no commandment not to use instruments. You have shown your self very intelligent and now you are making things up and I am surprised and shocked to say the least. And the idea that you think others will stand out is nothing but judgeing the others purity of heart or not. 1COR 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
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