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Old 03-10-2014, 02:25 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 2,545,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The New Testament talks about things like "dying with Christ" or being "crucified with Christ" and being "reborn" in the Spirit. If believers are reborn, then that would mean that their first resurrection has already occurred and that it was a spiritual one. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, etc. They have all experienced a spiritual resurrection, just like believers since the time of Christ. And they are alive today spiritually.

Jesus:
"But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
(Matthew 22)

Revelation 20:1-6 is the only place that mentions the so-called "millennial reign" of Christ. But many churches are preaching a pre-millennial "rapture" based on nothing more than what may be a possible misinterpretation of the First Resurrection.

What do you think? Should an entire new doctrine (Dispensationalism) be followed just because one person misinterpreted those 6 verses?
The resurrection of spirit [this is the first resurrection] is not to be confused with the day of the resurrection [which is a continuation of the first resurrection] when those in Paradise together with those who are on the earth at Christ's return will be caught up in the "clouds" of glory in the pure "air" of Heaven [Acts chap 1] to the Throne Room of God. From there to rule and reign with Christ.

IS 4:5 "And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defense."

There is now a cloud of glory upon all believers and a greater cloud of glory when we meet together. Christ is coming with the greater "clouds" [a place of glory for each believer] of the Throne Room of God. Clouds speak of the fact that they contain the waters of life.

ACTS 1:11 "You men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? [We don't need to gaze up at this physical heaven] this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." "Like manner" makes this statement a simile. He is actually coming in the "Power and Glory Clouds" of the Heaven of all heavens.



The Throne of God is where only Christ has ascended to thus far. It is what He meant when He said, JN 3:13 "And no man has ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man which is in Heaven." Heaven has several parts such as the Kingdom of Heaven within you, Paradise[3rd Heaven] and the Heaven of all Heavens which is the Throne Room of God.

The spiritual resurrection takes place in Christ at the moment of being "born again".
JN 11:25 Jesus said unto her, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believes in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

Last edited by garya123; 03-10-2014 at 02:33 PM..
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:01 PM
 
9,695 posts, read 10,043,447 times
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The first resurrection is referring to the resurrection of the body of Christ , which is the people of the body of Christ who go through the second coming of Lord Jesus in the rapture , as no one in the flesh survives the second coming of Lord Jesus , so then the priests of Christ are resurrected from the dead to re-populate the earth , and then others will go on to heaven and be there with God , and not go back to the earth ,............ Then the second resurrection is for the great judgment of all people of the creation through out time will come back and be judged one last time ........ So do you have your oil ? , and a ministry to be resurrected from the dead to repopulate the earth , or are you just saved and go to heaven with no crown for a reward in heaven ? ..... or maybe you will be resurrected from the dead with no soul on your table for the Lord Jesus on the second resurrection for the judgment of the last day .........
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:44 PM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,764,419 times
Reputation: 991
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The New Testament talks about things like "dying with Christ" or being "crucified with Christ" and being "reborn" in the Spirit. If believers are reborn, then that would mean that their first resurrection has already occurred and that it was a spiritual one. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, etc. They have all experienced a spiritual resurrection, just like believers since the time of Christ. And they are alive today spiritually.

Jesus:
"But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
(Matthew 22)

Revelation 20:1-6 is the only place that mentions the so-called "millennial reign" of Christ. But many churches are preaching a pre-millennial "rapture" based on nothing more than what may be a possible misinterpretation of the First Resurrection.

What do you think? Should an entire new doctrine (Dispensationalism) be followed just because one person misinterpreted those 6 verses?
The first resurrection will be of the dead in Christ when Jesus returns. After that, the living will be caught up in the clouds with the resurrected dead in Christ to be with Jesus. Many churches teach about that rapture you posted about because they teach and believe in the "second chance" theory, which is not in the Bible at all. Once Jesus comes back all judgment is done and finished.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:45 PM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,764,419 times
Reputation: 991
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The first resurrection is referring to the resurrection of the body of Christ , which is the people of the body of Christ who go through the second coming of Lord Jesus in the rapture , as no one in the flesh survives the second coming of Lord Jesus , so then the priests of Christ are resurrected from the dead to re-populate the earth , and then others will go on to heaven and be there with God , and not go back to the earth ,............ Then the second resurrection is for the great judgment of all people of the creation through out time will come back and be judged one last time ........ So do you have your oil ? , and a ministry to be resurrected from the dead to repopulate the earth , or are you just saved and go to heaven with no crown for a reward in heaven ? ..... or maybe you will be resurrected from the dead with no soul on your table for the Lord Jesus on the second resurrection for the judgment of the last day .........
I am sorry, but that is NOT what the first resurrection, spoken of in Revelation, is about at all.
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Old 03-10-2014, 05:00 PM
 
63,940 posts, read 40,210,295 times
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Default When does the "first resurrection" occur?

It already did. Christ is the "first-born." When He visited the dead (Hell) He resurrected them all into connection with God . . . as we will be when we die and are "born again"(resurrected) as Spirit. Why all the complicated folderol interpreting such enigmatic scripture as Revelation??? Christ had God's Holy Spirit to teach and guide Him to His rebirth as Spirit . . . and thanks to Jesus we have Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter) to teach and guide us to ours.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:25 AM
 
1,970 posts, read 1,764,419 times
Reputation: 991
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It already did. Christ is the "first-born." When He visited the dead (Hell) He resurrected them all into connection with God . . . as we will be when we die and are "born again"(resurrected) as Spirit. Why all the complicated folderol interpreting such enigmatic scripture as Revelation??? Christ had God's Holy Spirit to teach and guide Him to His rebirth as Spirit . . . and thanks to Jesus we have Christ's Holy Spirit (Comforter) to teach and guide us to ours.
I am sorry but I respectively disagree with you very much. The first resurrection spoken of in The Book of Revelation happens to be when the dead, who happen to be true Christians, will be lifted up to Heaven to be with Jesus at Jesus' second coming. Right after that is when the true Christians that are alive will be caught up in the clouds to also be with Jesus for 1000 years of peace. There is, in the future after the first two resurrections, another resurrection and that will be the resurrection of the lost.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:39 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,647,046 times
Reputation: 3771
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The New Testament talks about things like "dying with Christ" or being "crucified with Christ" and being "reborn" in the Spirit. If believers are reborn, then that would mean that their first resurrection has already occurred and that it was a spiritual one. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, etc. They have all experienced a spiritual resurrection, just like believers since the time of Christ. And they are alive today spiritually.

Jesus:
"But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
(Matthew 22)

Revelation 20:1-6 is the only place that mentions the so-called "millennial reign" of Christ. But many churches are preaching a pre-millennial "rapture" based on nothing more than what may be a possible misinterpretation of the First Resurrection.

What do you think? Should an entire new doctrine (Dispensationalism) be followed just because one person misinterpreted those 6 verses?
It is a pernicious doctrine to teach that the resurrection is already past.

2 Timothy 2:17-19
King James Version (KJV)

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Bible teaches us there will be a bodily resurrection from the dead, just as Lazarus, and that this resurrection is yet future.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:12 PM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,891,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
It is a pernicious doctrine to teach that the resurrection is already past.

2 Timothy 2:17-19
King James Version (KJV)

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The Bible teaches us there will be a bodily resurrection from the dead, just as Lazarus, and that this resurrection is yet future.
Do you deny the book of Revelation which speaks of the "first resurrection"?

Do you deny that Jesus said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were already alive (spiritually) in the Pharisee's day?

The physical resurrection you are speaking of occurs when Christ returns again on the last day. It is NOT the first resurrection.
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Old 03-16-2014, 05:39 PM
 
10,070 posts, read 4,990,746 times
Reputation: 757
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
The New Testament talks about things like "dying with Christ" or being "crucified with Christ" and being "reborn" in the Spirit. If believers are reborn, then that would mean that their first resurrection has already occurred and that it was a spiritual one. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, etc. They have all experienced a spiritual resurrection, just like believers since the time of Christ. And they are alive today spiritually.
Jesus:
"But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
(Matthew 22)
Revelation 20:1-6 is the only place that mentions the so-called "millennial reign" of Christ.
Besides Rev. 20 v 6 mentioning a first or earlier heavenly resurrection, 1st Cor. 15 vs 20, 23 talks about ' first fruits ' being resurrected.
Those who reign with Christ for a thousand years over Earth are resurrected before the majority of mankind.
- Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10; 2 v 10; Acts 24 v 15
Those called to heaven are joint-heirs with Christ as Jesus spiritual ' brothers' - Romans 8 vs 17, 23 - Jesus being first born among many ' brothers '.- verse 29 B
Those called to heaven have two jobs to do:- Rev. 5 vs 9,10
They serve as both kings and priests over earthly subjects of God's messianic kingdom.- Psalm 72 v 8
* As kings they will take care of the governmental needs of the meek who will inherit the Earth.- Psalm 37 vs 11,29
* As priests they will take care of the spiritual needs of earthly subjects under God's thousand-year kingdom.
At that millennial-long day faithful men of old [ Hebrews 11 vs 13,39 ] will see the physical fulfillment of the resurrection promise because all who died before Jesus will have a healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth - John 3 v 13; Acts 2 v 34
Those humble ' sheep' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32 will be the first ones to have a part [ Not in heaven ] but in living on Earth into Jesus millennial reign over Earth. They will be here on Earth to welcome back those who will be resurrected back to healthy life on Earth. Healthy because Jesus will heal or cure Earth's nations at that 1000-year time frame.- Rev. 22 v 2
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:54 PM
 
439 posts, read 427,480 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Jesus:
"But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
(Matthew 22)

Revelation 20:1-6 is the only place that mentions the so-called "millennial reign" of Christ. But many churches are preaching a pre-millennial "rapture" based on nothing more than what may be a possible misinterpretation of the First Resurrection.

What do you think? Should an entire new doctrine (Dispensationalism) be followed just because one person misinterpreted those 6 verses?
When we are born again that is our old self dying out, the flesh. This is not physical, it's spiritual. Therefore, there is not a "resurrection" in this instance. The actual "FIRST RESURRECTION" happens during the rapture. Those who have been born again, both alive and asleep (who have passed from this life) will be the partakers in the first resurrection. There is only ONE resurrection. After the rapture those who remain will enter into the 1,000 years of peace and after 1,000 years is judgement.

We don't establish a new doctrine based around a "first resurrection" theory. Doctrine is found in the Gospel's. As you can see in the scripture you posted from Matthew 22, Jesus is basically saying God is a God to those who will live forever more. Meaning, those who have been born again and make heaven their home. Those who are "dead" will not partake in the kingdom of God, their eternal life will be spent in hell. Therefore, God will not be their God. Satan will be their ruler. Death has no power.
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